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Meter main breaker used as emergency disconnect only

sclavette

Registered User
Joined
Nov 15, 2022
Messages
27
Location
CT
I ran into a meter main breaker that was being used as a emergency disconnect but not service disconnect recently.

The water pipe GEC went to the main panel, ground rods into the meter main box. Main panel had the "service disconnect"

Completely open basement less than 6' of SEU from meter main to the panel.

For some reason he had a bonding jumper #6 from the meter main to the panel in addition to the SEU.

Cited him for the bonding jumper creating a parallel path to ground and not properly labeling the emergency disconnect.

Certainly wasn't the intent of the NEC for a meter main to be used like this. 2023 added some language regarding this.
 
I ran into a meter main breaker that was being used as a emergency disconnect but not service disconnect recently.

The water pipe GEC went to the main panel, ground rods into the meter main box. Main panel had the "service disconnect"

Completely open basement less than 6' of SEU from meter main to the panel.

For some reason he had a bonding jumper #6 from the meter main to the panel in addition to the SEU.

Cited him for the bonding jumper creating a parallel path to ground and not properly labeling the emergency disconnect.

Certainly wasn't the intent of the NEC for a meter main to be used like this. 2023 added some language regarding this.
I am not sure I follow you on this one.
If the described "Emergency Disconnect" on the outside of the home is the first means of disconnecting the service conductors from the POCO meter, then it is the service disconnect. From the service disconnect on the outside to the main panel on the inside, you should have 4 wires as the inside, main panel is a feeder at this point. Many times the electricians place the "service disconnect" in the main panel even when it is not a service disconnect which is a problem in itself. Grounds and neutrals should be separated at the main panel.
Backing up a bit, I don't see how he can use 3 conductor SEU (USE) to connect the service disconnect to the main panel. That was a mistake which is why the failed attempt to run a #6 bonding jumper. Is the emergency disconnect service rated and fused or unfused?
This whole install sounds wrong.
Yes, the water bond should go to the service disconnect. The main panel inside is not the service disconnect, just improperly labeled.

What code cycle are you on?
 
If the described "Emergency Disconnect" on the outside of the home is the first means of disconnecting the service conductors from the POCO meter, then it is the service disconnect.
That was true up until the 2020 NEC. The 2020 NEC requires this emergency disconnect on the outside of 1 and 2 family dwellings supplied by services. So to facilitate this, you are allowed to deem it not the service disconnect and let the service disconnect be downstream (subject to the usual rule about indoors nearest the point of entry). You do that by labeling it "Emergency Disconnect, Not Service Equipment." See 2020 NEC 220.85.

Cheers, Wayne
 
That was true up until the 2020 NEC. The 2020 NEC requires this emergency disconnect on the outside of 1 and 2 family dwellings supplied by services. So to facilitate this, you are allowed to deem it not the service disconnect and let the service disconnect be downstream (subject to the usual rule about indoors nearest the point of entry). You do that by labeling it "Emergency Disconnect, Not Service Equipment." See 2020 NEC 220.85.

Cheers, Wayne
This is similar to cold-sequence metering for 480 services then?
 
This is similar to cold-sequence metering for 480 services then?
No experience with 480V services, but If that refers to a utility required meter disconnect, it's similar as it can be a way of disconnecting service conductors upstream of the NEC service disconnect. However the 220.85 disconnect can be downstream of the meter.

Cheers, Wayne
 
I am not sure I follow you on this one.
If the described "Emergency Disconnect" on the outside of the home is the first means of disconnecting the service conductors from the POCO meter, then it is the service disconnect. From the service disconnect on the outside to the main panel on the inside, you should have 4 wires as the inside, main panel is a feeder at this point. Many times the electricians place the "service disconnect" in the main panel even when it is not a service disconnect which is a problem in itself. Grounds and neutrals should be separated at the main panel.
Backing up a bit, I don't see how he can use 3 conductor SEU (USE) to connect the service disconnect to the main panel. That was a mistake which is why the failed attempt to run a #6 bonding jumper. Is the emergency disconnect service rated and fused or unfused?
This whole install sounds wrong.
Yes, the water bond should go to the service disconnect. The main panel inside is not the service disconnect, just improperly labeled.

What code cycle are you on?
This is on 2020. Due to the language and labeling in 230.85 he was able to circumvent using the meter main breaker as the service disconnect and use it just as the emergency disconnect.

As Wayne said, all you do is label it correctly and it meets code.
 
This is similar to cold-sequence metering for 480 services then?
It's somiliar but different. Correct me if I'm wrong but cold sequence always goes on the line side of the utility meter.

With the dwelling emergency disconnect it is not required to be on the line side, but can be
 
For some reason he had a bonding jumper #6 from the meter main to the panel in addition to the SEU.

Cited him for the bonding jumper creating a parallel path to ground and not properly labeling the emergency disconnect.
What code section does this violate and why? I have heard about a parallel path to ground, but no one has been able to explain it and I determined that it is a myth. What am I missing?
 
I ran into a meter main breaker that was being used as a emergency disconnect but not service disconnect recently.

The water pipe GEC went to the main panel, ground rods into the meter main box. Main panel had the "service disconnect"

Completely open basement less than 6' of SEU from meter main to the panel.

For some reason he had a bonding jumper #6 from the meter main to the panel in addition to the SEU.

Cited him for the bonding jumper creating a parallel path to ground and not properly labeling the emergency disconnect.

Certainly wasn't the intent of the NEC for a meter main to be used like this. 2023 added some language regarding this.
Is it possible to give us a one-line diagram of this installation so we are all on the same page? Just a simple, one line diagram.

What code section does this violate and why? I have heard about a parallel path to ground, but no one has been able to explain it and I determined that it is a myth. What am I missing?
Once the OP gives us a one-line diagram to verify the actual installation, this issue can be confirmed and explained, if, in fact, it is a violation.
 
Per the description in the OP, between the exterior emergency disconnect's neutral bar and the interior service panel's neutral bar are both the neutral conductor of the SEU and a #6 bonding jumper. So that would be a violation of NEC 310.10(H) Conductors in Parallel.

I.e. even though the #6 conductor was intended as an extra bonding conductor (unnecessary, as everything on the supply side of the service disconnect just gets bonded to the service neutral), it ends up connected the same as the service neutral. That means it's also a violation of 200.6 unless it has white insulation.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Per the description in the OP, between the exterior emergency disconnect's neutral bar and the interior service panel's neutral bar are both the neutral conductor of the SEU and a #6 bonding jumper. So that would be a violation of NEC 310.10(H) Conductors in Parallel.

I.e. even though the #6 conductor was intended as an extra bonding conductor (unnecessary, as everything on the supply side of the service disconnect just gets bonded to the service neutral), it ends up connected the same as the service neutral. That means it's also a violation of 200.6 unless it has white insulation.

Cheers, Wayne
I would agree but the descriptions stated between the meter and the main, not between the disconnect and service disconnect which is why I want clarification on what we are looking at.

For some reason he had a bonding jumper #6 from the meter main to the panel in addition to the SEU.
 
I would agree but the descriptions stated between the meter and the main, not between the disconnect and service disconnect which is why I want clarification on what we are looking at.
The quote you provided says "meter main" which I take to be the emergency disconnect, and "panel," which I take to be the interior service disconnect. But perhaps I have misinterpreted that.

Cheers, Wayne
 
The quote you provided says "meter main" which I take to be the emergency disconnect, and "panel," which I take to be the interior service disconnect. But perhaps I have misinterpreted that.

Cheers, Wayne
It is unclear. I don't know what a meter main is. Does he mean a combo-pack meter and service disconnect, does he mean the meter and the service disconnect? I would like to have NFPA defined terms used for clarification.
 
It is unclear. I don't know what a meter main is. Does he mean a combo-pack meter and service disconnect
Yes, although in this case the disconnect that is in the same enclosure as the meter is not the service disconnect, it is an emergency disconnect.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Yeah
Jeff called me about this today and I really need to see a riser diagram to determine what the OP really has going on here.
 
Here is the 2023 NEC wrinkle on this one..I think 230.85

(B) Disconnects.



Each disconnect shall be one of the following:
  • (1)
    Service disconnect
  • (2)
    A meter disconnect integral to the meter mounting equipment not marked as suitable only for use as service equipment installed in accordance with 230.82
Not sure I have seen "suitable only" yet, but hey....
 
Here is the 2023 NEC wrinkle on this one..I think 230.85
Yes, as far as I can tell, the only reason that was added to the 2023 NEC was for language reasons, not any technical reasons.

"Suitable only for use as service equipment" to my understanding means only that the neutral lug is bonded to the case, and there's no provision or accessory to add a neutral bar isolated form the case. But for an emergency disconnect you want the neutral bonded to the case, so the meaning of the label is not a problem. t.

But the language in 230.85 requires putting a label on the equipment that says "not service equipment." That's a language contradiction, but not a technical contradiction. It would have been better to resolve the language conflict by changing the required labeling to some like "emergency disconnect only, service disconnect inside."

Cheers, Wayne
 
Informational note 2 in 2023 NEC 230.85 says:

Equipment marked "Suitable only for use as service equipment" includes the factory marking "Service Disconnect"

These enclosures usually come factory marked "Service Disconnect" on a sticker inside of the breaker door.

It seems like this makes these enclosures suitably only for use as service equipment. Of course the sticker could always be removed.
 
So it is the service disconnect? Is this the last place the grounds and neutrals are tied together/
No. They labeled it per 250.85 and had the service disconnect in the panel in the basement

(2) Meter disconnects installed per 230.82(3) and marked as follows:

EMERGENCY DISCONNECT,

METER DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT
 
Is it or is it not the service disconnect which is the first means of disconnect in the system and where the grounds and neutrals separate? How about a one line diagram.
 
The grounds and nuetrals were bonded in the basement panel with the "service disconnect"

Because he labeled the one outside breaker according to 230.85, you don't need to make it the service disconnect

I'll post a 1 line tomorrow
 
Is it or is it not the service disconnect which is the first means of disconnect in the system
Again, starting with the 2020 NEC, that is no longer true. The first means of disconnect can be an "emergency disconnect," with the service disconnect downstream of it.

and where the grounds and neutrals separate?
But it is still true that the service disconnect is where that happens.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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