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Mixed Use/Separations/Exits

Discussion in 'Commercial Building Codes' started by Meadowbend99, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. Meadowbend99

    Meadowbend99 Registered User

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    I have a 7,000 SF existing 2 story house being turned into a reception center for a wedding venue.
    First floor is to be used for predominately assembly space (A-2), and some storage.

    We run into issues with the second floor. There are three bedroom suites that they would ideally like to rent out for wedding events. We are sprinklering the building, but creating a 1 hour fire wall between the A-3 & R-3 will be very costly and challenging (air handler over wall that would need to go to roof, would lose decorative stain glass windows in interior wall, would lose intricately detailed wood doors that match other doors).

    The area of those suites is 14% of the total gross occupied area. I have not taken covered patios into consideration with the occupant loads (if I count the covered patios then I'd be able to bring the R-3 under 10%. And then if I turn those suites into offices, I can claim the offices as accessory and not need to provide the fire wall). Then down the road they can convert the offices to suites.

    The other main issue is exits. My common path of travel from the second floor is greater than 75'. I have two interior stairs. One empties in the foyer 26' from the front door (door visible from stairs). The other empties into a small hallway with an exit door just outside that hallway 16' from the stairs (door is visible from the base of the stairs). Since this is an existing building, are there any concessions I can look at since neither exits directly to the exterior? There is a window directly in front of where the second stairs empties. If they converted the window to a door, would they also need to close off the hallway? (Really prefer not to do this). Getting sprinklers is already really painful with all the custom trimwork.

    ** Any recommendations on literature on what it takes to convert an existing residential wall to a fire partition. I'm trying to explain it to my clients and they need visuals.
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    So what is the idea for the bedroom use?

    Before wedding party people??

    Honey moon place??

    Other?


    So first floor what are the room measurements ??
     
  3. Meadowbend99

    Meadowbend99 Registered User

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    Ide
    Ideally with the R-3 occupancy it would be used for wedding party and family of bride and groom.

    If not used for that, then they would be consult rooms.

    The master suite is being turned into a dressing room for the bride.

    First floor rooms are roughly 400 Sf each: Formal Dining, Living, Library, Den. I've looked at making them accessory to the R-3, but they are more than 10%. However, if I calculate 2nd level outdoor patios as R space, I might be able to bring it under 10%. Do you think that might work?
     
  4. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Maybe not A’s??


    303.1.2 Small assembly spaces.
    The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:

    1. 1.A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.

    2. 2.A room or space used for assembly purposes that is less than 750 square feet (70 m2) in area and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
     
  5. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Are they actually sleeping there? If not, no R.....Fire partitions are easy as supporting construction does not come into play....Fire barriers and fire walls are much harder...Which one do you need? Where is the elevator going?
     
  6. Meadowbend99

    Meadowbend99 Registered User

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    If I can make the R work, then yes they would be sleeping there. There is already an elevator.

    303.1.2 Small assembly spaces.
    The following rooms and spaces shall not be classified as Assembly occupancies:

    1. 1.A room or space used for assembly purposes with an occupant load of less than 50 persons and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
    2. 2.A room or space used for assembly purposes that is less than 750 square feet (70 m2) in area and accessory to another occupancy shall be classified as a Group B occupancy or as part of that occupancy.
    I've looked at that before, but once I add up all those accessory spaces I'm over 10%, and even with a B occupancy I still need a 1 hr. (possibly 1/2 hour partition 708.3 exception: sleeping units equipped throughout with fire sprinkler for type IIB, IIIB, or VB).

    or as part of that occupancy - does "that" occupancy refer to A, B or whatever the occupancy is for the building (R)?

    Doing a 1 hr. fire partition wouldn't be difficult if this was new construction, but taking an existing residential wall that does not go up to the roof is a little more difficult. There are custom shaped doors with intricate trimwork that would need to be replaced (these are solid wood- if not less than 1 3/8" in thickness if it is a solid core, can they be used as 20 min. without sticker or testing?).

    There is a residential air handler with flex duct sitting on the wall. There are openings in the wall with custom stained glass (these would be easy to fill in, but a shame). I try to explain to my clients all the things that would need to be done to make that wall a fire partition and it blows their mind.

    Since the sleeping rooms are on the second floor, would they need to tear apart the sheetrock to seal penetrations for plumbing? elec.? We don't even know where all the runs are since it's existing?
     
  7. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    You need to be using the IEBC and sprinkle the entire building then no fire separations are required similar to the non-separated uses part in the IBC section 508

    1011.1.1.1 Change of occupancy classification without separation.
    Where a portion of an existing building is changed to a new occupancy classification or where there is a change of occupancy within a space where there is a different fire protection system threshold requirement in Chapter 9 of the International Building Code, and that portion is not separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, the entire building shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 of this code applied throughout the building for the most restrictive occupancy classification in the building and with the requirements of this chapter.

    1011.1.1.2 Change of occupancy classification with separation.
    Where a portion of an existing building is changed to a new occupancy classification or where there is a change of occupancy within a space where there is a different fire protection system threshold requirement in Chapter 9 of the International Building Code, and that portion is separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, that portion shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 of this code for the new occupancy classification and with the requirements of this chapter.
     
  8. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Fire partitions only go to the ceiling not the roof and only have to meet 1/2 hour in a sprinklered building see IBC 708
     
  9. Meadowbend99

    Meadowbend99 Registered User

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