Old elementary turned Religious Education Building

[emily_online]

I would appreciate input regarding the proper occupancy classification for a building used for religious ed. grades 1-12 on Wednesday evenings for 1 hour during the academic school year only. Info about the project below

1. Free standing educational building of 14,450 sf, on the same property as the church. Used to be a 5-6 school with two levels, 6 classrooms on each.

2. Classrooms to be split in two, resulting in 24 total classrooms.

3. Roughly 380 students to attend at once. No rooms to have occ. load >20

4. Needs a fire alarm system put in, but depending on the use group it could be very costly. But what is the proper use group?

I've read through the code and formed some preliminary ideas, but would like your unbiased takes.

Thanks,

 

[e hilton]

Post what you think it is, and why.

 

[classicT]

IS the building really only used for 1-hr per week? Seems hard to believe.

 

[emily_online]

IS the building really only used for 1-hr per week? Seems hard to believe

The only educational use is 1 hour a week. They will potentially rent out the classrooms for other organizations i.e. vendors or clubs who don't have a meeting space.

 

[cda]

The only educational use is 1 hour a week. They will potentially rent out the classrooms for other organizations i.e. vendors or clubs who don't have a meeting space.

So what will it be used for the rest of the week/ time???

And the church is still in business?

 

[cda]

Is """" the academic school year only/ academic/ eduation """ being done in the main church building??? During the weekdays??

 

[emily_online]

So what will it be used for the rest of the week/ time???

And the church is still in business?

It is used for nothing other than religion classes on Wednesday nights.

Yes the church is still in business

 

[emily_online]

Is """" the academic school year only/ academic/ eduation """ being done in the main church building??? During the weekdays??

The only thing meant by the academic comment is that it is held once a week September to May. Summer break it is vacant.

 

[cda]

The only thing meant by the academic comment is that it is held once a week September to May. Summer break it is vacant.

Sounds like "A" part of the church

 

[Mr. Inspector]

What is the occupancy now? I does not sound like a change in occupancy it it was E

Sounds like "A" part of the church

He said it was a stand alone building.

 

[cda]

What is the occupancy now? I does not sound like a change in occupancy it it was E


He said it was a stand alone building.

Still part of the church complex

Used for church activities

Mainly

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I would appreciate input regarding the proper occupancy classification for a building used for religious ed. grades 1-12

 

[steveray]

I'd go E depending on what the other "rentals" were.....

 

[cda]

Check the wording in your adopted code::;


305.1.1 Accessory to Places of Religious Worship

Religious educational rooms and religious auditoriums, which are accessory to places of religious worship in accordance with Section 303.1.4 and have occupant loads of less than 100 per room or space, shall be classified as Group A-3 occupancies.

 

[steveray]

I wouldn't call a separate building being rented out accessory.....

 

[cda]

I wouldn't call a separate building being rented out accessory.....

OP seems to be mixing terms…

“”””It is used for nothing other than religion classes on Wednesday nights.

Yes the church is still in business””””

 

[cda]

To me the rental factor is a separate factor,,,

For the ahj to deal with.

 

[ADAguy]

If rentals don't they then become a "B" if less than 50 occupants?

 

[Tim Mailloux]

seem pretty clear its an A3 to me.

 

[SH225]

During the time it is occupied, this adapted school building will have the same risk to life safety as a school. 380 students through 12th grade and their adult supervisors, distributed around the building in classrooms. It will certainly look like a Group E occupancy.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

The only educational use is 1 hour a week. They will potentially rent out the classrooms for other organizations i.e. vendors or clubs who don't have a meeting space.

During the time it is occupied, this adapted school building will have the same risk to life safety as a school. 380 students through 12th grade and their adult supervisors, distributed around the building in classrooms. It will certainly look like a Group E occupancy.

It will only ne used as a religous classroom building one day / one hour per week, and the rest of the week it could be rented out as meeting space to outside organizations. Pretty clear its some sort of A use to me.

 

[SH225]

It will only ne used as a religous classroom building one day / one hour per week, and the rest of the week it could be rented out as meeting space to outside organizations. Pretty clear its some sort of A use to me.

We only know one use for sure, and the code doesn’t address duration. If this was an arena, we would design it around the occasional event, not the rest of the time when it is empty.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I would say "E" for now and when they want to rent a room for a meeting since they cannot have over 50 occupants in a room it would not be "A" it would be a "B". I think "E" is stricter then "B" except "B" needs more plumbing fixtures.

 

[Yikes]

For what it's worth, my understanding of the origins and intent to not call a religious use an "E" occupancy, goes back to the original intention of "Sunday School", where the parents we in a church service in the sanctuary, while the kids were in "sunday school class" in other rooms on the same campus.
If there was a fire or other emergency, the parents could go to the classrooms to help evacuate their kids.
In contrast, a regular state-mandated K-12 education puts a classroom full of kids under the sole life-safety responsibility of one adult teacher. With that in mind, the life-safety issues of an "E" school use are different than an "A3" Sunday School occupancy.

None of this is stated in the code - - it's just anecdotes I've heard over the years as to how the code came about.