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Older Codes ?

opinion914

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Orange County New York
So I had to inspect a condition where the stair has a riser of 12" and need to compile a report where I state this is non-compliant. Obviously this is a non-compliant condition in current NYCode however how do I determine what was compliant in 1971 when the structure was built? How do we reference previous codes or do we even have to, Are non-comformities "grandfathered in" in no renovations have been done since original build? Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

First, determine which code was adopted at the time the structure was built (not necessarily the most recent code at the time). Then research to find a copy of that code - Suggestions: public library, building department library, etc. Also, once you determine which code is applicable, post on this thread and ask... Many of us keep old code books around and could check.

For what it's worth, I don't think 12" was ever compliant for a riser, but who knows... Is it residential or commercial? Is it a means of egress or access to equipment? Lots of variables here.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

opinion914,

Welcome to the best Code Forum there is! :)

There are a few New York code officials on here, ...maybe one of them will chime in

with the answer you are looking for.

 
Re: Older Codes ?

Thanks for the warm welcome. It's an R2 Use and it's an exit door. I really doubt a 12" riser was ever code but I just need something in writing from 1971 era to support my thoughts.

Kevin
 
Re: Older Codes ?

This may help...

1976 UBC - Sec. 3305 © states that rise shall not exceed 7.5". Exception: serving an occupant load of 10 or less, 8" maximum.

It is quite possible that this was NOT the code in effect for your location, however, the various codes were likely in agreement for items such as stair construction.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

It's also possible that there was no building code in the locality at that time. I don't know about New York, but Virginia didn't adopt a statewide building code until 1973, and several counties hadn't adopted any code before then.

I don't know of any codes that would have allowed a 12" rise, other than industrial ladders. 8", and rarely 9", was the maximum.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

Pardon my ignorance regarding NY codes... does/did NY have its own codes, or did they use a national standard? If they had their own, it is MUCH more likely that a NY library would have copies. Check the local library and remember to whisper when you're in there!
 
Re: Older Codes ?

Good call Paul(s). Turns out this particular town did not subscribe to the NY Code until 1984. This was 13 years after the construction of this structure.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

The 1967 Uniform Building Code, Section 3305 states that "the rise of every step in a stairway shall net exceed 7 1/2". The exception for private stairways is 8".
 
Re: Older Codes ?

Are you implying that there was NO CODE prior to 1984, or just not a NY state code prior to then? If there was no code adopted when the structure was built, I'm not sure you have any basis for requiring compliance. If they are doing alterations/modifications now, then you could probably require compliance if this is the affected area of work.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

That's the thing, I know this town didn't recognize the NY State Code until 1984, so then what was their governing body.... did they just wing it or go by the UBC? I'd be surprised if they recognized the UBC.
 
Re: Older Codes ?

Even if a code wasn't adopted there where "design standards" that existed. Below are some books that may provide an answer for your question.

The following stair books and other books on stair history, design, and architecture can be purchased at our Amazon-Supported InspectAPedia Bookstore

Steps and Stairways, Cleo Baldon & Ib Melchior, Rizzoli, 1989.

The Staircase: History and Theories, John Templar, MIT Press 1995

The Staircase (two volumes), John Templar, Cambridge: the MIT Press, 1992.

"The Dimensions of Stairs", J. M. Fitch et al., Scientific American, October 1974.

...
 
Re: Older Codes ?

From the NYS Property Maintenance Code:

[F] 702.1 General. A safe, continuous and unobstructed path of travel shall be provided from any point in a building or structure to the public way. Means of egress shall comply with the Fire Code of New York State.

The Fire Code 1009.3 appears to call for compliance with the current standards for stairs, including tread dimensions and rise & run.

You might encounter some resistance there....
 
Re: Older Codes ?

The city clerk could tell you what, if any building code was required at the time of construction.

The question in my mind, is did the stair serve a required exit at the time of construction?

If it did not, it should be considered as a means of escape and judged accordingly.

There should be some perspective.

It's one thing if it's serving seven units totalling 8000 square feet.

Another if it's serving two at 1200.
 
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