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Pennsylvania Continues to Blindly Make Rules without Context

jar546

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First I read this:

Electronic Signatures and Seals During Covid-19 Pandemic
Due to the current coronavirus pandemic, social distancing guidance from the Federal and State government and remote work is making it difficult for Architects to issue final or complete documents to clients, where Architects might interpret existing regulations to require a physical stamp and signature. The Department of State is providing this notice to clarify that all licensees of the State Architects Licensure Board may utilize electronic/digital signatures and seals until such time that Governor Wolf determines that the statewide emergency proclamation may be lifted. Electronic/digital signatures and seals affixed during this statewide emergency shall be recognized as originals notwithstanding the end of the current statewide emergency.
Let's first address this issue that PA does not define what an electronic or digital signature actually is and the rest falls apart from there. Yes, something had to be done but rather than fix the problem, they create more with this bandaid. Another example of rules being made without actually knowing the business.

A digital signature from Adobe helps no one and does not confirm who actually signed the plans. Unless this comes from a third party digital verifier that imprints the PDF, a digital signature is useless but not as useless as an electronic signature.
 
That sounds somewhat similar to Oregon's Administrative Rules for Engineers, which requires either wet-signed stamp or DIGITAL SIGNATURE.

- "The Digital Signature must be unique to the registrant using it,

- "The Digital Signature must be independently verifiable by a Certificate Authority (3rd Party),

- "The Digital Signature must be under the sole control of

- "The Digital Signature must be attached to the document is such a manner that the digital signature is invalidated if any data in the document is changed. And

- "For final electronic files, the registrant affixes a computer-generated image of a stamp that bears the phrase "digitally signed" in lieu of and in the location designated for a hand-written signature on that page. The computer-generated image of the stamp must be of a stamp as described in OAR 820-025-0001(1) and (2), including the size prescribe in OAR 820-025-0001 when the page is printed to full size.

It is frustrating because more than 90% of the "Digitally Signed" stamps we receive in our department do NOT comply with all of Oregon's requirements for Digital Signatures. (See OAR 820-025-0005, OAR 820-025-0010, OAR 820-025-0020 and OAR 820-025-0025 for additional information). I am told that we are the only department in Oregon that insists on the digital signature. (LOL, where have I heard that before?!!)
 
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That sounds somewhat similar to Oregon's Administrative Rules for Engineers, which requires either wet-signed stamp or DIGITAL SIGNATURE.

- "The Digital Signature must be unique to the registrant using it,

- "The Digital Signature must be independently verifiable by a Certificate Authority (3rd Party),

- "The Digital Signature must be under the sole control of

- "The Digital Signature must be attached to the document is such a manner that the digital signature is invalidated if any data in the document is changed. And

- "For final electronic files, the registrant affixes a computer-generated image of a stamp that bears the phrase "digitally signed" in lieu of and in the location designated for a hand-written signature on that page. The computer-generated image of the stamp must be of a stamp as described in OAR 820-025-0001(1) and (2), including the size prescribe in OAR 820-025-0001 when the page is printed to full size.

It is frustrating because more than 90% of the "Digitally Signed" stamps we receive in our department do NOT comply with all of Oregon's requirements for Digital Signatures. (See OAR 820-025-0005, OAR 820-025-0010, OAR 820-025-0020 and OAR 820-025-0025 for additional information). I am told that we are the only department in Oregon that insists on the digital signature me
In Florida we have almost the exact same language but enforcement has been a bear. Our non-compliance rate is much worse with architects than it is with engineers. We have about a 70% compliance rate with engineers and about a 20% compliance rate with architects. Some still think they can use Adobe to place an electronic signature which is not correct. We require a digital 3rd party verified signature and Adobe does not cut it.
 
PA screwed up the 2018 IRC that will start next year. Many changes. They took some things out of the 2018 and added sections from the 2009, 2015 and the 2021 and changed other sections without making a Pennsylvania Residential Code book. Just took a webinar on it. I guess I need to cut the changes out and paste them into the 2018 IRC. I hope the designers do the same but they probably won't know about it.

Some funny things too. They changed the requirement for window U factors only in climate zone 3. There is no climate zone 3 in PA! This shows that no research (or any actual thinking) was made for the changes and they only made thinks up.
 
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Forged DP signatures are rare but they do happen sometimes, and it's easy to do with a pdf. I know an architect in Virginia who had a disagreement with a client. The client took the preliminary drawings and had a drafting service draw the working drawings from them. They scanned the signed seal from another project and pasted it into the pdfs they submitted for a permit.
 
Forged DP signatures are rare but they do happen sometimes, and it's easy to do with a pdf. I know an architect in Virginia who had a disagreement with a client. The client took the preliminary drawings and had a drafting service draw the working drawings from them. They scanned the signed seal from another project and pasted it into the pdfs they submitted for a permit.
Was the building permitted and constructed?
 
Forged DP signatures are rare but they do happen sometimes, and it's easy to do with a pdf. I know an architect in Virginia who had a disagreement with a client. The client took the preliminary drawings and had a drafting service draw the working drawings from them. They scanned the signed seal from another project and pasted it into the pdfs they submitted for a permit.
If he or anyone else ever gets caught doing this or anything similar. Being a whole lot of explaining to the authorities required!
 
A scan of a signed seal is not a digital signature. With a digital signature you cannot alter the file without corrupting the file.

The scanned seal and signature may be an electronic signature but its validity is dependant on there being supplementary information indicating an intent to sign the documents.
 
It does not matter if the drawings are stamped, signed and sealed or a digital signature. We (the building department) are not the ones who police the validity of a stamp, seal or signature on a set of drawings. A set of plans can have any number of Architects and/or Engineers who have designed and signed/sealed various portions of the buildings design.
 
A scan of a signed seal is not a digital signature. With a digital signature you cannot alter the file without corrupting the file.

The scanned seal and signature may be an electronic signature but its validity is dependant on there being supplementary information indicating an intent to sign the documents.
You are correct. The plans are not electronically signed, they are digitally signed and if altered, the signature is voided.
 
It does not matter if the drawings are stamped, signed and sealed or a digital signature. We (the building department) are not the ones who police the validity of a stamp, seal or signature on a set of drawings. A set of plans can have any number of Architects and/or Engineers who have designed and signed/sealed various portions of the buildings design.
In Florida, we are required to verify the digital signatures. I just got back from a 2-day conference on this very subject.
 
Did you check out BlueBeam for creating and verifying signatures?

 
Did you check out BlueBeam for creating and verifying signatures?

We do all plan review in blubeam
 
It does not matter if the drawings are stamped, signed and sealed or a digital signature. We (the building department) are not the ones who police the validity of a stamp, seal or signature on a set of drawings. A set of plans can have any number of Architects and/or Engineers who have designed and signed/sealed various portions of the buildings design.
Our state requires a person that practices architecture to be licensed and I check and verify that they are current through a website. I have not seen any violation except an architect that let his license lapse. Other than that I don't chase them down, I let the project applicant do the investigation.
 
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