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Roofing code questions (before I get embarrassed asking the building inspector)

cda

Sawhorse 123
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Oct 19, 2009
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20,966
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Basement
You guys are right, thanks for the feedback. I'll remove what are essentially just complaints from last time and expect that their new work will meet code/manufacturer instructions. I will insist on true 3/8" head nails, that the insufficient decking is repaired, and that they somehow remedy all the extra nail holes in the tops of the fascia boards/drip edges from the initial crew's gutter guard mess up (they bent it out of the way and then unsuccessfully tried to nail it flat again).

If you can't tell already, I was astonishly disappointed with the quality of work of the subcontractors they hired, but they will be sending their own crew this time. They did a decent job on many of my neighbors' roofs, so the results should be dramatically better. And I'll talk with the inspector about checking on it in progress.

They've said that they will cover a certain amount of new decking, but if we go over, any idea how much extra per sheet of OSB is normally charged?


before rates went up

I was told for about a 2000 sq ft house,,

one story, not much pitch

To Re deck would cost $5000
 

my250r11

Sawhorse
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
906
Location
Roswell, NM
They have finally agreed to redo it. Meeting next week to discuss expectations.

Below is a draft of what I think I'll ask for. Any corrections, additions, or deletions that I should consider?

I’ve done some roofing, I know it is hard work, and I expect that some mistakes will happen, but it ultimately must be done to code and per GAF installation instructions for full warranty. I feel a little silly pointing out some of these things, but many are items that the subcontractor’s crew missed the first time.
  • To minimize damage from moving shingle bundles, if possible I would prefer that they be delivered to the roof instead of the driveway.
  • Use full ⅜” head nails
  • All rotten decking replaced - if there is any question, replace it.
  • If soffit insulation baffles need to be removed, replace them, or at least tell me about it
  • Sink a few more nails in any loose decking - if it moves when stepped on, nail it
  • Replace drip edges that were improperly nailed/holed from gutter guard fiasco
  • How will all the extra holes in the top edges of fascia boards from gutter guard fiasco be sealed?
  • No more mystery bumps - remove or flushly sink remaining old nails, clear decking of debris and loose nails
  • New Ice&Water and felt - fully covering decking this time
  • Cleanly cut holes in felt for vents/penetrations instead of roughly tearing them
  • Valley metal running ALL the way down to gutter, preferably notched and bent over drip edge. I like what was done on the neighbor’s with it flattened under the ridge cap.
  • Minimal gaps between drip edge pieces and between step flashings
  • Starters running full length of eaves, then overlapped by rake starters
  • ¼” to ¾” overhang of starters over drip edges and fully covered by shingles
  • If a shingle is damaged, don’t install it and don’t unnecessarily damage installed shingles.
  • Don’t cut/score installed shingles by trimming others on top of them
  • Stagger between courses no less than 4”, ideally at least 5” or 6” per GAF instructions
  • Shingles at the rake edge no less than __” wide
  • Even exposures, shingles properly butted to and not overlapped on top of those beside them
  • Lower flange of chimney flashing, either no nails or sealed/nailed only in corners to flatten edges (see neighbor’s)
  • What to do about dormer flashing full of nail holes? Add 1’ dormer flashing in back where it's missing. (I can remove siding if needed.)
  • If any exposed nails are necessary in flashings, seal them
  • Pipe cap pitch adjusted, over shingles on sides, and lead clamped to pipe, as per F.J.Moore instructions - or leave it and I will do it
  • If you can’t get bath vent connected correctly from above, tell me and I’ll take care of it from the attic
You are on your way to being an inspector for roofs lol.

Drip edge should almost always be replaced. We only allow reuse in vary few situations of any type of flash & drip allows gets damaged in the tear off.
 

Pcinspector1

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
3,804
Location
MID WEST
Spent some time with the building inspector today. He's very interested in the nail head discrepancy and is looking further into it, but couldn't give me an answer straight away
I suspect there are a few inspectors that have caught some illegal items on a job site. I thought I had a big fish on a hook when I could not find a grade stamp on some 2x10 floor joist, false alarm. Looking from 10ft away the eye sometimes will miss the faint little No. 2 D-FIR stamp. It took me about seven joist until I spotted a stamp.

However, I did catch an electrician not installing a GE, he stuck the GC in the ground and stapled it to the utility pole but my boot had just enough room to lift the GC out of the ground. Poor fella wanted to sell fireworks that weekend, he had to wait till Monday.
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,966
Location
Basement
You guys are right, thanks for the feedback. I'll remove what are essentially just complaints from last time and expect that their new work will meet code/manufacturer instructions. I will insist on true 3/8" head nails, that the insufficient decking is repaired, and that they somehow remedy all the extra nail holes in the tops of the fascia boards/drip edges from the initial crew's gutter guard mess up (they bent it out of the way and then unsuccessfully tried to nail it flat again).

If you can't tell already, I was astonishly disappointed with the quality of work of the subcontractors they hired, but they will be sending their own crew this time. They did a decent job on many of my neighbors' roofs, so the results should be dramatically better. And I'll talk with the inspector about checking on it in progress.

They've said that they will cover a certain amount of new decking, but if we go over, any idea how much extra per sheet of OSB is normally charged?

Are they going to remove all the shingles off the roof???
 

strobit

Registered User
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
13
Location
MN
You are on your way to being an inspector for roofs lol.

Drip edge should almost always be replaced. We only allow reuse in vary few situations of any type of flash & drip allows gets damaged in the tear off.

LOL, unfortunately, it wasn't very hard to spot the defects in this botched roofing job. One more defect I just found is that in addition to rotten decking at the eave, there is a 1" gap between the decking and the drip edge (which is just nailed to the tops of the fascia boards). No wonder why it felt like there was nothing under there. It never should've just been covered up, but if you're trying to get the whole roof torn off and reshingled in one day, you apparently need to cut a lot of corners.

Are they going to remove all the shingles off the roof???

Yes, they will do it all over again. This time with someone from the head office on site and perhaps some visits from the building inspector.

I, and the building inspector, will insist on full 3/8" head nails. The company rep was curious about the head size difference when I showed him the nails and is looking into why the nails they get from their supplier are smaller. I hate to think about how many thousands of roofs have been done lately with nail heads that are too small, which is why I have been trying to find some viable reason/excuse/justification for them being used.
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
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LOL, unfortunately, it wasn't very hard to spot the defects in this botched roofing job. One more defect I just found is that in addition to rotten decking at the eave, there is a 1" gap between the decking and the drip edge (which is just nailed to the tops of the fascia boards). No wonder why it felt like there was nothing under there. It never should've just been covered up, but if you're trying to get the whole roof torn off and reshingled in one day, you apparently need to cut a lot of corners.



Yes, they will do it all over again. This time with someone from the head office on site and perhaps some visits from the building inspector.

I, and the building inspector, will insist on full 3/8" head nails. The company rep was curious about the head size difference when I showed him the nails and is looking into why the nails they get from their supplier are smaller. I hate to think about how many thousands of roofs have been done lately with nail heads that are too small, which is why I have been trying to find some viable reason/excuse/justification for them being used.
viable reason/excuse/justification for them being used.

Not made in the USA????

Metric??
 

ADAguy

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Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
6,044
Location
California
Thanks Bill1952. It seems as though a lot of it hinges on the manufacturer instructions.

Mark, the code says 3/8" minimum head size, but the coil roofing nail heads I've seen being used around here (hail storm, a lot of new roofs going on) are smaller. Do these smaller heads pass for 3/8" - sort of like how 1/2" plywood isn't quite 1/2" anymore?

nail.head_-700x542.jpg
Code is a minimum, manufactures is a warranty issue; do both.
 

strobit

Registered User
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
13
Location
MN
The job is done and, from what I can tell, done pretty well the second time around.

They ended up using Bostitch CR4DGAL coil nails. They're still a bit small, with heads varying from .350" to .370", but much better than the generic ABC Supply nails that were originally used. Having looked around at local building supply stores and not finding any coil nails that are actually .375", I'm thinking that these Bostitch nails are about as good as coiled nails come these days.

While I'm much happier with this second new roof, it still bothers me that the commonly available and commonly used nails fall short of minimum code and manufacturer requirements. Why have a minimum spec if it is not going to be, or maybe even can't be, adhered to?

Pic below shows an original (.380"), a Bostitch (.360"), and a generic (.325")
TXDnqhY.jpeg
 

Joe.B

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Joined
Dec 4, 2020
Messages
407
Location
Myrtletown Ca
I'm a little baffled by this to be honest. I went looking at nail heads on job sites expecting to find similar problems but I haven't found anything like you're describing. Granted I'm not using calipers, just a standard tap measure, but on every jobsite I've checked since the beginning of this thread they all measure 3/8" and look like the standard roof nails I'd expect to see. Possibly a regional thing? Anybody else find smaller than expected roofing nails?
 

ADAguy

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California
Times change and with them manufacturing standards and experienced installers and inspectors.
Are you in a high wind area?
 

Joe.B

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Dec 4, 2020
Messages
407
Location
Myrtletown Ca
Times change and with them manufacturing standards and experienced installers and inspectors.
Are you in a high wind area?
I'm not sure if you're addressing me or the OP but our design criteria here is listed at 85mph, and I think the highest recorded windspeed (recorded in our neighbor city) was under 70: "In Eureka, the fastest recorded wind speed ever was 69 mph on two occasions in 1981, according to online NWS records last updated in March 2014." I don't have enough experience to know if that makes us a high wind area or not, but when I hear about what some other states face with tornadoes and hurricanes I would say no.
 

my250r11

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Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
906
Location
Roswell, NM
We have a local policy to not allow 3 tab shingles. The wind here can get up 100+mph. most 3 tabs are only rated for 60mph. If you read the ASTM for them you will find that they have to be 6 nailed and 2 dabs of tar on each tab to meet the rating. Don't know anybody that will install them that way. The BO official didn't either thus the policy.
 

Pcinspector1

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Oct 28, 2009
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I've checked a few here and didn't see any issues with smaller heads being used.

Have bigger issues with portal strap nailing or lack of!
 
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