• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Separate WC / Lavatories

K

KMEARC

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
8
I've seen a few restaurants have the separate WC and lavatories in the hallway. It's a cool concept but not confident it's ADA complaint.

You can certainly provide one or two unisex which is fully compliant but does anyone see glaring issues? Assume that the clearances are fine.
 
Not sure I understand the setup. Access is access, and all the requirements would apply. If a group lav, then there may be some question about whether multiple Lavs would be required to be accessible, since multiple water closets are. I can't imagine that wouldn't happen organically, as an accessible lav is pretty easy to provide.

If you are saying the lavatories are grouped in an area outside of the toilet rooms, for shared use, I have wondered about this. It is a concept I have encountered on plans only once, but I know it's out there, and I have seen it outside of the country. Both the 2018 and the 2021 IPC prohibit the lavatory from being outside of the same room as the water closet. The intent is a sanitary issue, and unless the lavs can be accessed through a passage without a door then this would not comply with code. The only time I have seen a set up with single user facilities where the lav was outside the room was in a child care facility where the caregivers could monitor and teach about handwashing.

In one way I like the idea....it reveals to the public the nastys that don't wash their hands.
 
My original post somehow was clipped... sorry for such few details.

The scenario would be a corridor of toilet rooms and shared lavs immediately outside the water closets. I've seen this in both small and large towns around the country. If the fixtures are adjacent, would that satisfy IPC? Sounds like technically, no.

I think it's beneficial from a bunch of scenarios... it allows for genders to not be an issue (ie. more women waiting) or the all gender / which bathroom issue.
 
I was actually surprised to still see the provision in the 21 code because I agree, the codes are going that way. It may be a little more interesting since sanitation took on more of the spotlight with the 'Rona. 18 & 21 IPC 405.3.2.
 
Is the IPC applicable?

Section 405.3.2 2015 IPC & 2021 IPC: In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet. Does the scenario described meet this requirement
 
Thanks Sifu
I see that a restaurant was listed, but I forgot that the OP listed the IPC. I'm currently working on a project using the National Standard Plumbing Code and that skewed my thinking.
 
KMEARC said:
I've seen a few restaurants have the separate WC and lavatories in the hallway. It's a cool concept but not confident it's ADA complaint.

You can certainly provide one or two unisex which is fully compliant but does anyone see glaring issues? Assume that the clearances are fine.
Click to expand...
I do not know of any code (or 2010 ADASAD) issue that would prevent the design where the toilet is located in a room separate from the lavatory. Both Spaces will need clearances and maneuvering space.
 
KMEARC said:
It's a cool concept
Click to expand...
It is no longer a concept when it actually exists. It is a pi$$ pour design for use by the general public

You are in a nice brand-new restaurant enjoying a nice meal with the family and junior knocks over your wife's glass of red wine and it spills onto her brand new $150 silk blouse. She needs to run to the ladies' room to take the blouse off and run it under some cold water to keep the wine from setting and ruining the blouse. She gets there and notices all the lavatories are in one spot and being used by both men and women. What now does she do? Take her blouse off and put on a show for the men? Not to mention if young children are around. Some people do not care and will do exactly that. But most would be to be embarrassed and then frustrated.

Where is the changing table located? In the hall with all the lav's> I bet that stench will ruin a few appetites.
 
There are codes and there are best practices. The code is always a minimum and therefore may not recognize a poor design.
The code is the worst standard/design you can legally build to.
 
Here in Hawaii if the restaurant serves liquor it is required to have separate gender facilities at least one male and one female restroom. They can add a single family restroom for personal assistants of the opposite gender. We use the UPC here Iapmo.
 
mtlogcabin said:
It is no longer a concept when it actually exists. It is a pi$$ pour design for use by the general public

You are in a nice brand-new restaurant enjoying a nice meal with the family and junior knocks over your wife's glass of red wine and it spills onto her brand new $150 silk blouse. She needs to run to the ladies' room to take the blouse off and run it under some cold water to keep the wine from setting and ruining the blouse. She gets there and notices all the lavatories are in one spot and being used by both men and women. What now does she do? Take her blouse off and put on a show for the men? Not to mention if young children are around. Some people do not care and will do exactly that. But most would be to be embarrassed and then frustrated.

Where is the changing table located? In the hall with all the lav's> I bet that stench will ruin a few appetites.
Click to expand...
This is more a college drinking establishment with a side of food. I think they'll be fine w/ folks taking off a shirt. ;)
 
mtlogcabin said:
It is no longer a concept when it actually exists. It is a pi$$ pour design for use by the general public

You are in a nice brand-new restaurant enjoying a nice meal with the family and junior knocks over your wife's glass of red wine and it spills onto her brand new $150 silk blouse. She needs to run to the ladies' room to take the blouse off and run it under some cold water to keep the wine from setting and ruining the blouse. She gets there and notices all the lavatories are in one spot and being used by both men and women. What now does she do? Take her blouse off and put on a show for the men? Not to mention if young children are around. Some people do not care and will do exactly that. But most would be to be embarrassed and then frustrated.

Where is the changing table located? In the hall with all the lav's> I bet that stench will ruin a few appetites.
Click to expand...
I think for now best practices should require complete accessible single user restrooms with privacy latches, lavatories, toilet, bench seat, and baby changing stations. No more multi stall type bathrooms allowed. That would cost a bit more but, may make all the patrons happier.
 
Jean Tessmer-HI said:
I think for now best practices should require complete accessible single user restrooms with privacy latches, lavatories, toilet, bench seat, and baby changing stations. No more multi stall type bathrooms allowed. That would cost a bit more but, may make all the patrons happier.
Click to expand...
I generally agree but it would cost a lot more than a bit more in larger assembly occupancies, like stadiums and arenas.
 
Tim Mailloux said:
The 2021 IPC definition of a TOILET FACILITY is 'A room or space that contains not less than one water closet and one lavatory'. So by definition all the required fixtures must reside in the same room.
Click to expand...
"or space"
the SPACE I DEFINE INCLUDES HALLWAY OUTSIDE THE TOILET SINGLE OCCUPANT STALLS. Single stall walls are wood framed with gyp. and tile....
 
mark handler said:
"or space"
the SPACE I DEFINE INCLUDES HALLWAY OUTSIDE THE TOILET SINGLE OCCUPANT STALLS. Single stall walls are wood framed with gyp. and tile....
Click to expand...

I think this provides enough clarity......

2021 IPC 405.3.2 Public lavatories.
In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.

Code Commentary:
In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory must be located in the same room as the required water closet or in an adjacent room connected by openings without doors. This provides the user with necessary sanitary facilities to promote proper hygiene and to prevent the spread of infectious diseases. In some public toilet arrangements, the water closets and urinals are located in a separate room from the lavatories, thereby requiring the user to engage doors to
access the lavatories after using a urinal or water closet. Such an arrangement would be a violation of this section as the intent is that the lavatories be avail-able to allow the user to wash his/her hands prior to contacting any door handle or push plate for exiting the toilet facility
 
I don't see a lot of difference between doors and typical partitions with handles and latches.

If it's touching to the hardware, what about powered doors that don't have to be touched?
 
The important part is "exiting the toilet facility". I have questioned the partition handles in the past as well, but you are still in the "toilet facility". The intent is to "encourage" sanitary behavior by giving someone a sink right outside the toilet, but if someone wishes to be nasty, there isn't much we can do about it. During the "Rona frenzy, I saw a few different ideas about how to never have to touch a door after washing your hands...most had problems, some were thought provoking. In the end, the pile of paper towels on the floor told the tale.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top