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Size of high-piles storage area

Discussion in 'Commercial Fire Codes' started by Rick18071, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    2015 IFC. I have a tire warehouse that want to put in a high-pile rack system in only part of the building. Racks will be 21" high. Looking at table 3206.2 to determine protection how do you measure the size of the high-piled storage area, Just the racks them self's, or do you count the aisles between them?
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    In the past you counted the aisles between them, but not leading to them or on the exterior area of the high piled stock

    Look at the definition of "high piled storage area"

    Plus the fire sprinkler protection 3206.2 requirement
     
  3. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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  4. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    HIGH-PILED STORAGE AREA. An area within a building
    which is designated, intended, proposed or actually used
    for high-piled combustible storage.

    3206.2 Extent and type of protection. tells you fire protection is to go 15" pass the high-piled storage area.

    This did not help me to know what the area sq. ft. is
    They are putting in two row of racks in a 520,000 sq, ft. space, one row along an exterior wall is 540' x 4'-6" and the next row is 12' away 400' long with two rows of 4'-6" racks 6" apart.
     
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I would include both racks and aisle in the high piled area

    So extra hazard over 2500 sq ft
     
  6. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    What does it mean on table 3206.2 and 3207.1 as solid piles. If the rack is filled with tires would that mean solid piles? not sure if their using pallets but they are calling it a "Pallet Rack" on the permit application but it doesn't look like they are using shelves. I'm not sure because tires have holes in them as well as other spaces, but the tires could also be sticking out past the edge of the racks.
    If I figure the cubic feet of these racks (add 4' above top of rack where tires could be stored, but it could be more) I get 150,7750 cubic feet which is way more than the maximum pile volume in table 3206.2.
     
  7. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I take a solid pile to be like a bunch of boxes or similar stacked together on the floor.

    Fire code essentials gives the examples of rolled paper, rolled carpet, materials that are baled,
    Materials stored on the floor.
     
    #7 cda, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Once you go above six feet with tires, you are in the high hazard commodity area.

    From there it is back to your original question of how many sq ft is designated for tire storage.

    I still feel it is over 2500.
     
  9. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    So what are they saying the square footage is???
     
  10. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    My other opinion is require a technical report from a FPE,,,

    Because with that amount of tires and so high in the air, you are dealing with a lot of nasty.
     
  11. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Also what is next to the tire storage area??? More High piled??

    If so look at 3206.3.2 and 3206.3.2.2

    Sorry it has been a long time since I had to deal with high pile
     
  12. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Didn't say.

    Whats a FPE?
     
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Fire Protection Engineer

    IFC allows you to require a report 104.7.2


    ""Didn't say.""

    Sounds like a review comment

    Plug in the requirement of IFC 3201.3, along with a technical paper. and that should take care of the questions.

    They have to be asked anyway for the fire sprinkler design.
     
  14. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I don't think I can use this. The IFC has not been adopted and I can only use the sections that the IBC sends me to. We don't have a fire code official too. We don't do any periodical inspections here. Once they have a C. O. we can't go there anymore.

    [A] 104.7.2 Technical assistance. To determine the
    acceptability of technologies, processes, products, facilities,
    materials and uses attending the design, operation or
    use of a building or premises subject to inspection by the
    fire code official, the fire code official is authorized to
    require the owner or owner’s authorized agent to provide,
    without charge to the jurisdiction, a technical opinion and
    report. The opinion and report shall be prepared by a qualified
    engineer, specialist, laboratory or fire safety specialty
    organization acceptable to the fire code official and shall
    analyze the fire safety properties of the design, operation
    or use of the building or premises and the facilities and
    appurtenances situated thereon, to recommend necessary
    changes. The fire code official is authorized to require
    design submittals to be prepared by, and bear the stamp of,
    a registered design professional
     
  15. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Well doesn't 413.1 IBC get you into the IFC???

    and add 102.4 IBC once you do 413.1
     
  16. Insurance Engineer

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    Check NFPA 13 for storage configuration in the 2013 Ed see

    A.3.9.4.9 Rubber Tire Rack Illustrations. Figure A.3.9.4.9(a) through Figure A.3.9.4.9(g)

    This will give you an idea of how tires are stored and the required sprinkler protection which can be significant. Then you can ask questions and have them tell you as per NFPA 13 how they plan to provide protection based on the above storage configuration.

    From an insurance point of view we would take the entire area including aisles in the square foot calculations for any storage area regardless of the commodity stored.

    Check out FM Data Sheet 8-3 it covers rubber tire storage and will give you a good overview of the hazards. FM data sheets are free. See below for how they overview the hazards.


    2.1 Introduction
    The required protection for storage of rubber tires falls into several categories: construction and location, occupancy, and automatic sprinkler protection. Most rubber products have a smooth surface which does not absorb water. Pre-wetting with water, which is possible with products like paper or wood, is not possible with rubber tires. Also, rubber tires lose their stability in case of fire, collapse, and produce pool fires. In addition, rubber tires fire generate a great deal of smoke, and toxic products of combustion which hinders manual fire fighting and causes extensive damage. Finally, storage and stacking arrangements of rubber tires create difficult challenges with regards to fire fighting since the tire’s hollow, doughnut shaped form allows flames to grow on its inner surface while at the same time shielding flames from sprinkler spray.


    3.1 General
    Tire storage presents a severe fire hazard. Tires burn rapidly, emitting intense heat and large quantities of dense smoke that hamper firefighting. Tires are generally manufactured from synthetic compounds, carbon, oil, various additives and steel, fiberglass, polyester, cotton, etc. The principal materials used in tires are
    synthetic rubbers. Heat of combustion can vary from 14,000 to 20,000 Btu/lb (33 to 34 MJ/kg). Ignition temperature can vary from 700°F to 800°F (371°C to 425°C). The hollow, toroidal shape of the tire provides a large shielded surface area and flue spaces which, combined with the material, result in a severe fire hazard.

    Automatic sprinklers can control fires in most tire storages, but water demands are high. Manual firefighting is valuable, but difficult because of the intense heat and smoke produced.
     
  17. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Thanks. I need to get more info. It is already an existing tire warehouse without racks. I think they have sprinklers but gave no info.
     
  18. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Well to open the commercial size can of worms,

    I would definitely ask for FPE report on the entire place.

    Is the sprinkler designed for what is stored and how it is stored.

    Buildings with fire sprinklers do burn to the ground. And I would not want to be the one live at five, explain why I signed my name to it!!!!!!

    Just how I work, from a few close calls.
     
  19. Insurance Engineer

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    When I was working on the insurance side of the house, my staff of 65 engineers , about 45% of the sprinklered warehouse buildings we looked at the sprinkler system was not adequate for the occupancy!!! Proceed with caution.
     
    cda likes this.
  20. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    upload_2019-6-19_4-17-8.png
    The storage of combustible materials in closely packed piles, on pallets, in racks, or on shelves where the top of storage is greater than 12 feet in height. High-piled combustible storage also includes certain high-hazard commodities, such as rubber tires, Group A plastics, flammable and combustible liquids, idle pallets, and similar commodities where the top of storage is greater than 6 feet in height. CFC 3202 Note: To be considered non-high pile combustible storage for high hazard commodities < 6 feet there cannot be any storage above it.
     
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