Sprinkler required because Fire Truck is too big?

[chrisrog]

We have a 6 unit residential project (rental townhomes) along one side of a short dead end street. Our site is the last 140' of frontage of a street that is about 275' long. The street has existed for decades. It is a dead end into someone else's property.

Per the residential code, we must provide 1) a 2 hour wall between units, or 2) a domestic sprinkler system (13D) will allow a 1 hour wall between units.

The fire marshal says that because he can't turn his fire truck around at the end of the street, our owner had to install a 13R system and a fire hydrant. When we pushed back with the building code requirements he changed to the 2 hour wall plus the 13D system plus the fire hydrant.

It appears to me that the fire marshall is requiring the property owner to spend money to counteract a hardship caused by the city itself. Ironically, we pulled up a map of the site that includes the fire station and measured: If the fire department had to back a fire truck out of this road, the distance required to reverse the truck along a 30' right of way is the same distance the have to back the truck into the apparatus bay from their own right of way, but on the fire department property they have to thread it through the much narrower garage door.

I'd love to read comments or arguments. Both sides are welcome. Am I being too short sided? Is the city out of line?

I know there's a trend to purchase larger and larger fire trucks, but in a town filled with mostly small scale historic neighborhoods, why buy a truck so large that you can't use it?

 

[khsmith55]

I think it appeared in the 2015 IFC if I'm not mistaken. A big change that flew under the radar is that the IFC requirements now apply to buildings built under the IRC. That being said, I think the Fire Department is being generous with you. It sounds like you have a "dead end" condition greater than 150', the Fire Code requires a turnaround or an alternate (i.e. sprinkler system). Again the hydrant(s) are required by the IFC.
Good luck
Ken

 

[Beniah Naylor]

The fire marshal says that because he can't turn his fire truck around at the end of the street, our owner had to install a 13R system and a fire hydrant. When we pushed back with the building code requirements he changed to the 2 hour wall plus the 13D system plus the fire hydrant.

Usually this is not a punitive thing, usually it goes like this:

The FM is a code expert, and relies on memory for many requirements.
Contractor/design professional/owner pushes back.
FM goes and finds the code section, and it's actually more restrictive than they thought, or doesn't apply specifically how they thought.
The FM enforces as written.

Then it becomes awkward...

 

[mtlogcabin]

The size of the fire truck is irrelevant to how far they will back up. The 150 ft limit is a safety issue/concern

[A] 104.8 Modifications.
Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the fire code official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases, provided that the fire code official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and that such modification does not lessen health, life and fire safety requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the department of fire prevention.

He is granting a modification

 

[mark handler]

Where is the existing fire hydrants?
How far away?

 

[jj1289]

First question would be, does the FM have jurisdiction in this situation? In CT the FM does not have jurisdiction over construction under the IRC

 

[Paul Sweet]

Can you provide a turnaround?

 

[SCBO1]

Is the FM desiganted as the Fire Code Official or is the the Building Officials call?

Also check to see it the city or the Fire District has adopted IFC Appendix D? Maybe a hammer head could be installed by the city?

 

[Genduct]

We have a 6 unit residential project (rental townhomes) along one side of a short dead end street. Our site is the last 140' of frontage of a street that is about 275' long. The street has existed for decades. It is a dead end into someone else's property.

Per the residential code, we must provide 1) a 2 hour wall between units, or 2) a domestic sprinkler system (13D) will allow a 1 hour wall between units.

The fire marshal says that because he can't turn his fire truck around at the end of the street, our owner had to install a 13R system and a fire hydrant. When we pushed back with the building code requirements he changed to the 2 hour wall plus the 13D system plus the fire hydrant.

It appears to me that the fire marshall is requiring the property owner to spend money to counteract a hardship caused by the city itself. Ironically, we pulled up a map of the site that includes the fire station and measured: If the fire department had to back a fire truck out of this road, the distance required to reverse the truck along a 30' right of way is the same distance the have to back the truck into the apparatus bay from their own right of way, but on the fire department property they have to thread it through the much narrower garage door.

I'd love to read comments or arguments. Both sides are welcome. Am I being too short sided? Is the city out of line?

I know there's a trend to purchase larger and larger fire trucks, but in a town filled with mostly small scale historic neighborhoods, why buy a truck so large that you can't use it?

Seems to me the real question is not in the BLDG CODE but in the Legal: Zoning /Planning area
IS the Street Dedicated, meaning does the municipality take responsibility for the Maintenance of the street, the sewer and water service? Seems to me 18ft is the min required that assumes emergency vehicles can access and give the designers an area adjustment (bonus) for fire area calcs. Of course the Fire Marsahall doesnot need to refer to the Bldg Code, they have seperate jurisdiction and often EQUAL Authority to Approve or withhold Approval. Sounds like more questions than answers I understand

 

[mtlogcabin]

The fire code definitely applies to an IRC Building for fire department apparatus access since the 2009 edition. In 2018 they removed some of the language in item #2

2018 IFC
[A] 102.5 Application of residential code.
Where structures are designed and constructed in accordance with the International Residential Code, the provisions of this code shall apply as follows:

1. Construction and design provisions of this code pertaining to the exterior of the structure shall apply including, but not limited to, premises identification, fire apparatus access and water supplies. Where interior or exterior systems or devices are installed, construction permits required by Section 105.7 shall apply.

2. Administrative, operational and maintenance provisions of this code shall apply.

2009 IFC

102.5 Application of residential code.
Where structures are designed and constructed in accordance with the International Residential Code , the provisions of this code shall apply as follows:

1. Construction and design provisions: Provisions of this code pertaining to the exterior of the structure shall apply including, but not limited to, premises identification, fire apparatus access and water supplies. Where interior or exterior systems or devices are installed, construction permits required by Section 105.7 of this code shall also apply.

2. Administrative, operational and maintenance provisions: All such provisions of this code shall apply.

 

[Genduct]

The fire code definitely applies to an IRC Building for fire department apparatus access since the 2009 edition. In 2018 they removed some of the language in item #2

2018 IFC
[A] 102.5 Application of residential code.
Where structures are designed and constructed in accordance with the International Residential Code, the provisions of this code shall apply as follows:

1. Construction and design provisions of this code pertaining to the exterior of the structure shall apply including, but not limited to, premises identification, fire apparatus access and water supplies. Where interior or exterior systems or devices are installed, construction permits required by Section 105.7 shall apply.

2. Administrative, operational and maintenance provisions of this code shall apply.

2009 IFC

102.5 Application of residential code.
Where structures are designed and constructed in accordance with the International Residential Code , the provisions of this code shall apply as follows:

1. Construction and design provisions: Provisions of this code pertaining to the exterior of the structure shall apply including, but not limited to, premises identification, fire apparatus access and water supplies. Where interior or exterior systems or devices are installed, construction permits required by Section 105.7 of this code shall also apply.

2. Administrative, operational and maintenance provisions: All such provisions of this code shall apply.

I agree that the Bldg Code speaks to these issues!

In many jurisdictions, the Fire Marshall and the Head Bldg Code Official have EQUAL AUTHORITY
So my point was It Depends! It is always interesting to hear about these Turf Discussions where the Bldg Owners/ Contractors find themselves in the middle was my point was my take on the situation. I hope I made that point to help the writer lookout for any swampy conditions they might encounter