• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

stair width

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,099
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
2009 IRC. I am not used to doing residential inspections. There is a 3 riser stairway with 3 risers with a guard but the guard does not have a grip-size hand rail, only a 2x4 on top. No hand rail required for 3 risers. It's only 33" between the guard and wall. R311.7.1 says the width of the stairs only needs to be 31.5" below the handrails otherwise it must me mim. 36" wide. Does this mean if they add handrails the width will be ok? I don't understand by adding handrails It's ok to have norrower stairs.
 
no handrail required, nothing to regulate there. Width complies technically. landing must be 36" in the direction of travel. the only question about the width that I have is the "guard" above the permitted handrail height?

R311.7.1 Width. Stairways shall not be less than 36 inches in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height...the minimum clear width below the handrail height including treads and landings shall not be less than 31 1/2 inches...
 
Rick,

Landing width is dictated by the width of the door accessing it. Therefore as long as the landing is wider than the door's opening, it complies,

R311.7.1 Width. Stairways shall not be less than 36 inches (914 mm) in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height and below the required headroom height. Handrails shall not project more than 4.5 inches (114 mm) on either side of the stairway and the minimum clear width of the stairway at and below the handrail height, including treads and landings, shall not be less than 311/2 inches (787 mm) where a handrail is installed on one side and 27 inches (698 mm) where handrails are provided on both sides. Exception: The width of spiral stairways shall be in accordance with Section R311.7.9.1.
Click to expand...
So the simple debate is how does one dictate permitted handrail height, and does measure based on 1 handrail or 2.

38" is the maximum handrail height, so this would be the cut off point in my book.

As for the width I would be measuring between the stringers and only for 1 handrail, thus the 31.5" width.

However, I would also check if they did install a handrail would the width comply with a single handrail width.
 
This is exterior at the front door. When you step down one step from the door onto a landing, the landing only goes out 33" to a guard. the landing is 8' long the other way with stairs on each end. The landing is less than 30" high and there is 3 risers for the stairs, no hand rail. Stairs are only 33" wide between the guard and house wall. If they put a handrail on the guard for the stairs and the landing is the width ok? The code seeems to say you need a handrail in order for do use the smaller width (31.5") for the stairs and the landing. There doen't seem to be a heigth requirment for handrails for a landing, and the guard is not required here, but the handrail would have to meet code for height for the stairs. But then R311.3 requires the landing at the door must be mim. 36" in the travel direction and doesnt say it can be smaller if there are handrails.
 
1. This is exterior at the front door. Ok

2. When you step down one step from the door onto a landing, the landing only goes out 33" to a guard. the landing is 8' long the other way with stairs on each end. The landing is less than 30" high and there is 3 risers for the stairs, no hand rail. Stairs are only 33" wide between the guard and house wall. If they put a handrail on the guard for the stairs and the landing is the width ok?

I'd ok it as it seems to meet the 31.5 in requirement.

3. But then R311.3 requires the landing at the door must be mim. 36" in the travel direction and doesnt say it can be smaller if there are handrails. I'm still comfortable with it since a guard would be similiar to Figure311.5.1.
 
Rick,

I will revise my previous post a little, due to Friday headaches,

The 31-1/5" width requires a handrail to be installed, and 27" width requires two handrails to be installed, what I meant to say before was if no handrail is installed the exception is not an option, IMO.

As for the 36" travel on the required landing, the code says

R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. Exterior landings shall be permitted to have a slope not to exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent).
Click to expand...
So the way I read it, and some may disagree, if you have a landing that travels the 36" and before you get to the end of it the guard stops you, it complies, per R311.3, simply because the landing is there for the 36".

Now I know I am splitting hairs, but the codes does not say you are required to have a landing with a 36" minimum clear path in the direction of travel. Just that the landing be there.

I am guessing it looks like this but larger width

bridgerail.jpg


So I ask yes/no
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tb:

white door appears to open out.. I'd say landing required (unless it's one of those oh so frequent "historic" things). Stairway width is measured at the handrail height., not below.. treads can be narrower than that.

Existing, unchanged condition.. it's not a current code issue..
 
white door looks about 4 feet high, so probably only access to water heater/air handler/firewood storage.

either that or blue door is for NBA player.
 
"either that or blue door is for NBA player. "

good one pack........ :p

I figured it was a coal/firewood door to a cellar.

As far as the OP, you could split hairs on the "direction of travel" issue, but bottom line is, handrails could still encroach, restricting the effective use. Document, move on.
 
This isn't a picture of the project i was talking about but it's close to it (except for the door swing and handrail, and mine has a wood guard with 2x2's).

It sounds like they will need to

1. The landing and stairs will have to be rebuilt wider

or

2. only widen the landing and install handrails on the stair guards

or

3. take the guard off stairs and landing

to pass code
 
existing is what it is... we see it all the time. Code says the landing needs to extend 36".. common sense says.. the width of the door or stairway. Think the guard rail is still a good idea.

In a single family home, we all adapt to where we live.. I had a home with really steep stairs (old house)... we managed, because we were used to it... commercial structure is different...

Just sayin'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top