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Still learning after all these years

ICE

Oh Well
Staff member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
12,903
Location
California


http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/10599973385/[/URL]

The detail shows the X bars extending 2'6" past the Spring Line at the floor of the pool. As you can see in the picture, the X bars do not extend into the floor anything like the detail.

10600022376_1e6465db6a_o.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/10600022376/

The pool contractor called the steel sub who assured us that he always does it like this. I didn't fall for that. He became upset. I had several other people chew me out today so I wasn't interested in what he had to say and said goodbye. I asked the pool contractor to call the engineer.

I explained the situation. Since there is almost no radius at the bottom, the contractor thinks that the Spring Line is the wall of the pool and he is 2'6" from the wall.

The engineer told me to follow the vertical Spring Line until I see another 2"6". That 2'6" is from the top of the bond beam to the horizontal Spring Line. The Spring Line is the point at which the arc commences. The arc shall not commence any further than 2'6" below the top of the bond beam. He said that the arc acts as a buttress. Without that buttress the pool must be re-engineered.

I didn't know that. If the steel had been a few feet longer, I would have approved the work.

This applies to raised bond beam applications and pools that are built as retaining walls and most likely just to this particular engineer's design. In other words, you can't use this information so forget that you ever saw this.

So if you can't use this, what's the point of telling you? Ask questions is the point. Ask lots of questions. The more questions that you ask, the more stuff you're going to find out.
 
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I hadn't thought of that. The contractor tried to have me kicked off the job so if I were to ask for a structural observation I'd probably take a hit as being punitive.
 
Maybe I don't understand the picture. Are you saying the #3 grid does not continue across the floor of the pool? That's welded wire?

If so, that is not how they do it here.
 
I agree with Mark, if you are not comfortable with it, ask for the engineers acceptance letter.
 
gfretwell said:
Maybe I don't understand the picture. Are you saying the #3 grid does not continue across the floor of the pool? That's welded wire?If so, that is not how they do it here.
That is all #3. The pattern starts out as 12'' each way in the floor and wall. The X bars are are added according to a chart with the spacing contingent on the height of the raised bond beam.
 
fatboy said:
I agree with Mark, if you are not comfortable with it, ask for the engineers acceptance letter.
I'm not comfortable with the way it is now and wrote a correction to follow the plans as we all now understand them.
 
OK I got you.

The short answer is if the plans that were approved say you need 2'6 into the floor, that is what they need to do or resubmit the plan and get it reviewed.
 
gfretwell said:
OK I got you.The short answer is if the plans that were approved say you need 2'6 into the floor, that is what they need to do or resubmit the plan and get it reviewed.
Well almost. The plans do call for 2'6" into the floor but more important is the 2'6" at the top. There is essentially no arc. There must be an arc that starts no more than 2'6" from the top of the bond beam. That arc creates a buttress. As it is there is weakness where the wall meets the floor and it's not strong enough with just #3 bars. In pool parlance, "raised bond beam" equates to "retaining wall". You will never see a nine foot retaining wall with #3 bar.

The missing extension into the floor is what started me to asking questions. That led to the real problem.
 
fatboy said:
Or, get a letter from the RDP..................
Fatboy,

The RDP said this is ****ed up. I don't need him to put it in writing. I'll do that for him. We sometimes forget that we are working for the engineers when we inspect work done with their design.

Do you ever wish that you could leave a correction notice that says "This is ****ed up"?
 
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