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"The Code"

C

chuckmiller

Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
4
Location
Central PA
Ok, let's see if I can stir the pot here. Step on some toes or maybe even offend a few.

:eek:

For whom is "The Code" written? Is it builders, architects, engineers, tradesmen, building owners, or those low life lawyers?

Who writes the code? Is it builders, architects, engineers, tradesmen, building owners, or those low life lawyers?

Do we really need a building code? "I've been buildin' for 50 years anin't none of my buildins falled down yit".

Has the code gone to far? Follow the money, oops there's those lawyers again and insurance companies and politicians.

Where does responsibility and common sense come into play? This is a subject that isn't taught in colleges, so there goes all those PEs, architects and construction managers.

Did I leave anyone out, I'm sure I did, but I'll bet some one will straighten me out.

Anyway, are there any takers out there?

Have a nice day,

Chuck
 
Re: "The Code"

Hmm....

when it comes to lawyers and politicians - there goes common sense.
 
Re: "The Code"

For whom is the code written?

Everyone. Not everyone likes it, no-one likes every part of it, but it is, nonetheless, written for all.

Who writes the code? Anyone lucky/crazy/clever enough to get on a committee.

Do we really need a code? At this moment in time, YES. The codes exist as a result of greed. Not the greed of those who created it, but rather the greed of those, historically, who would do less than build safe, strong buildings.

Has the code gone too far? In some ways, yes. In other areas, not far enough.

Perhaps a different question... Who SHOULD write the code?
 
Re: "The Code"

You did forget the manufactures who try to ammend the code so their product is mandated or the "we need to protect everybody" groups who propose locking caps on refrigerant lines or minimum window sill heights.
 
Re: "The Code"

If everyone did the right thing we wouldn't need codes. Is that happening anytime soon??
 
Re: "The Code"

Absolutely. We need codes or some building regulations to set the minimum standards.

Even before the days of state adopted building codes was the building laws/ordinances adopted by local/municipal governments. Most of which was based on nearby larger cities which based theirs on the big city of the region. San Francisco on the west coast, Chicago in the upper mid-west and New York City on the East Coast for the original 13 colonies area, predominately.

Of course, we had many competent building designers / architects at that time. As everyone was unlicensed in the early years prior to the adoption of the architect title & practice laws. Creating the two worlds of architecture/building design.

I urge for the utmost standard of professional care when carrying out any project. We aren't free of liability and we are not free from negligence, tort and other claims. In Oregon, we are covered under design services or architectural services and both terms are used. It will be interpreted as either one but we are covered. Errors and omissions and negligence on our part as the designer that results in damages to property as well as injuries maybe claimed against the designer and actions maybe made against designers just like architects and the benchmark standard of care doesn't differ.

The code helps to set the bottom line and I would hope our B.O.s to be vigilant in code enforcement within reason. I know, sometimes it can be taken to the point of irrational.
 
Re: "The Code"

I have a copy of an original letter and a transcribed copy somewhere (the orignal was penned with quill and ink). The letter was from a gentleman named Thomas Jefferson and was written to then President George Washington. At the time the President lived in Philadelphia and the new White House was being proposed to be moved to current Washington D.C. In the letter, Mr. Jefferson was promulgating separations between buildings and limiting story height to help reduce fire spread in laying out the city. So building codes go back along time and were even on the minds of our founding fathers in the infancy of our nation.

If someone can tell me how to post them on this site, I'll do that.
 
Re: "The Code"

Get them scanned into a digital form (a bitmap). Then we'll discuss the steps of putting a computer bitmap file as an attachment. I'll discuss that step once we get through the first step.
 
Re: "The Code"

Codes are not new. Hammurabi is credited with the earliest written code that has been found.

To study the history of it, follow this link http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html

For those with less patience, the 228 through 230 was the building code section:

228. If a builder build a house for some one and complete it, he shall give him a fee of two shekels in money for each sar of surface.

229 If a builder build a house for some one, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built fall in and kill its owner, then that builder shall be put to death.

230. If it kill the son of the owner the son of that builder shall be put to death.

Number 21 is the earliest and best version of a burglar alarm:

21. If any one break a hole into a house (break in to steal), he shall be put to death before that hole and be buried.

Number 14 is the solution to pedophilia:

14. If any one steal the minor son of another, he shall be put to death.

and Number 5 would put and end to activist Judges:

5. If a judge try a case, reach a decision, and present his judgment in writing; if later error shall appear in his decision, and it be through his own fault, then he shall pay twelve times the fine set by him in the case, and he shall be publicly removed from the judge's bench, and never again shall he sit there to render judgment.

Codes are a good thing :mrgreen:
 
Re: "The Code"

Great comments so far, I wasn't sure what I would get. I am encouraged that there are several people that have ethics to do the right thing.

Many moons ago in my architectural training I was told that one of the earliest codes was written by king Hammurabi around 1790 BC. If the house built by a builder collapsed and killed the owner then the builder shall be put to death. If goods were damaged then the builder shall repay the owner for those goods. AND so on. So, we were taught to consider this when designing or building a structure. Besides your name is on it, if it falls down then you won't be building for very long after the word gets out.

Anyway, now we have lawyers that live on loop holes.

And, yes manufacturers that influence code writers (which makes them politicians).

So, as John said who should write the codes?

I know I simply don't have time, so one of yous guys will have to. :lol:

Also, I will most likely learn something.

Like Jeff says "The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I don't know"

Chuck
 
Re: "The Code"

If people were just prudent and do what is right then we wouldn't need codes and laws.

:ugeek:

However, the world is in the business of breaking laws and being bad and evil and the victims are the poor citizens who try to do what is right and yet pays for all the errors and wrong doing of the blessed ones with power to punish you the honest ones while securing job security for the wrong doers all in the name of "safeguarding public health, safety and welfare". :twisted:

I call it BULLSH*T!!!! :mrgreen:

Lets just do it right.
 
Re: "The Code"

Thomas Jefferson letter.

Original.jpg


Transcribed.jpg


[Moderator:]You don't want the: ?action=view&current= part.
 
Re: "The Code"

passivedesign.jpg


(IMG)http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/RickAstoria/passivedesign.jpg(/IMG)

Replace () with [ ] and place the correct URL for your photo.

BTW: You'll see something on the order of "Share this Image" and several different link URL Link options:

Look for the one for IMG code.

If you go to your ALbum and hover your pointer over the image a little drop down menu appears. The dropdown menu will have several link option. Move the pointer down, highlight the URL in the text box right of IMG code: which will start with the .

You can also highlight and copy the URL from the drop down text box immediately to the right of Direct link copy and paste it to the bulletin board and remember to put the
tags after the URL.

It should follow the convention shown above. I purposely used () instead of [] because if I did not, it would just show the picture. () actually do nothing but use [] when you actually want the photo to appear. The photo above is with it actually done but the IMG Code path you see above is purposely "broken" by use of the () instead of [] so you can visually see the code and how it should look.

<--- Closing IMG tag



You have to have a path that directly links to an actual photo pic. So you need the URL to the photo itself. Photobucket site actually prepares it for you.

PS: I corrected your IMG path, High Desert.

In your case: http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/name_of_picture.### ### = picture file type (bmp, jpg,png,ect.)

A correct IMG tag would be:

(img)http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/picture_in_album.jpg(/img)

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/ <-- This is the URL path to the album directory to your pics in the album.
 
Re: "The Code"

conarb said:
High:http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/?action=view&current=Transcribed.jpg

Is this what you are trying to post, I think Photobucket bans third party image posting, I guess that's not the case since Rick's image is hosted by Photobucket, I can't make yours work either.

Edit: Now I see it did work!
Click to expand...
http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/?action=view&current=Transcribed.jpg

I corrected the image path. It was the ?action=view&current= part that threw things off.

The true image path is

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af259/Fenderman14/Transcribed.jpg

If you get that gooblygook -> ?action=view&current= - just remove it out of the URL.
 
Re: "The Code"

For whom is "The Code" written? Is it builders, architects, engineers, tradesmen, building owners, or those low life lawyers?Who writes the code? Is it builders, architects, engineers, tradesmen, building owners, or those low life lawyers?

Do we really need a building code? "I've been buildin' for 50 years anin't none of my buildins falled down yit".

Has the code gone to far? Follow the money, oops there's those lawyers again and insurance companies and politicians.

Where does responsibility and common sense come into play? This is a subject that isn't taught in colleges, so there goes all those PEs, architects and construction managers.
Click to expand...
1. The codes are written FOR everyone involved in the business of construction - smart and knowing and just barely there. It is not written for the uninformed or beginner. Hopefully the architect can understand it so that the builder can build to it and the inspector and building/fire officials can review to it. Unfortunately it is not written for the tradesmen since many of them know nothing about the codes. Also unfortunately, it IS written for the lawyers :twisted: so we need to be careful about how the language is crafted when its put in there.

2. Who writes the code is anyone who has a vested interest in the outcome (except ICC staff - they're prohibited from proposing code changes :shock: ). Anyone, from a housewife to a lawyer; from a congressional staffer to a single-shop architect; from a building inspector to an association of "people who really get their heads squirrely about this stuff." I've found few lawyers who care enough to want to write code. Most of those who do, write it legislatively and screw up the technical provisions since they have fewer clues than mice have hooves. :D

3. Yes'm, we need one. That's a shame but since we live in a society where the game is to get the most for the least, those that honor the least seem to rise to the top too often. :x

4. Has the code gone too far? Well that depends on what the issue is and who it is that's voting on it, Since committee members can vote to make only a recommendation and only code officials can actually vote on the changes themselves. I guess it's up to the code officials to answer that. :eek:

5. The responsibility SHOULD be taught in the colleges to those who design. Too often, the almighty dollar speaks louder and those who should care relegate that to someone else or try to find "another way." Sometimes, with those who have an understanding of the underlying reasons and science for code requirements, "another way" may be just the thing :ugeek: . In other hands, its called cutting corners. In a capitalistic society, responsibility is a rare and precious commodity.

Soap box relinquished. . .

NEXT!

:mrgreen:
 
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