TWO STUD CORNERS or why NAHB LOVES THE NEW ENERGY CODES

[Uncle Bob]

While we are indulging in spitting contests over Green Building; the NAHB; using your tax dollars from HUD; are using Green Building to save money.

Instead of learning the new Energy Codes; just go to this web site and learn about what you are going to be inspecting and "approving".

The first time I saw two stud corners I had my usual hissy fit; and did my "not until hell freezes over" dance. Of course all the illegal aliens (oops, I mean "undocumented workers") gathered around to see this marvelous display of stomping and yelling. Not speaking or understanding the English language; I believe they thought it was a ceremonial dance we do when approving their fine handywork.

But, I digress. I found this website by accident; and those that are in favor of Green Building will be delighted to have this site to add to their arsenal to defeat the old school framing carpenters with.

Here is the money saving two stud corner design on 24" center, replacing the old three stud corner on 16" centers; that I see as framing insanity; but, of course will prevail;

(see pages 9 and 13)

http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/adv_framing_rpt.pdf

A savings of 25% to the builder; so, Green Building is cheaper, ya'll.

There is much, much more on this website for us to study; if we plan to stay in the business of code compliance;

http://www.toolbase.org/about.aspx

The Federal Government in alliance with the NAHB; will determine what is and is not acceptable construction practices; and we might as well get used to it.

Uncle Bob

 

[mark handler]

UB

They also identified several problems with the two stud corners and the single top plates

With two-stud corners, the nailing surface for exterior cladding was inadequate. Fiber cement siding with plastic composite trim was used on the home. On one side of a corner, there was barely room to nail the corner trim through the flange securely into a solid stud; the lap siding could only be nailed into the 7/16-inch OSB sheathing at this end. Such a fastening schedule not only violates many manufacturers’ recommended installation methods, but also prescriptive code requirements. For most types of horizontal lap-siding, the 2006 IRC requires fastener penetration of 1½ inches into solid wood. In some cases, the carpentry instructor added blocking to facilitate attachment.

As well as other issues

Also in the conclusion:

"Current guides tend to stress material savings without in-depth consideration of some of the cost and performance trade-offs involved. The goal should be to optimize, not maximize..."

 

[TJacobs]

Resistance is futile...

 

[Uncle Bob]

Mark,

Also on the inside; they are using "approved" drywall clips; attaching the drywall with no stud backing in the corner to the secured drywall sheet with stud backing; adjacent to it. Perhaps a warning sign should be required; "Don't lean on this corner".

Oy Vey,

Uncle Bob

 

[mark handler]

Mark,Also on the inside; they are using "approved" drywall clips; attaching the drywall with no stud backing in the corner to the secured drywall sheet with stud backing; adjacent to it. Perhaps a warning sign should be required; "Don't lean on this corner".

Oy Vey,

Uncle Bob

That's what they proposed, but they also identified several of the problems of two corner construction and single top plate issues.

Identify the problems find solutions.

Some said automobiles would never replace the horse.

There was resistance every step of the way when light framing evolved. We must stop protecting old technologies.

 

[conarb]

Mark:

I've responded to your threatening (and I'm not accusing you of physical threatening) PM twice, and deleted them both times, I haven't decided whether or not to respond, not wanting to get into a personal ****ing contest with you, but I can't let your personal crusade for your political/religious convictions go unchallenged.

There was resistance every step of the way when light framing evolved. We must stop protecting old technologies.

By "light framing" I assume you mean what has come to be known as "lightweight framing", as far as that is concerned I bought into gang-nail roof trusses in the 60s and 70s and have had to rebuild every one of them by now since I warrant my buildings for my life. Lightweight framing has been a disaster, NIOSH has come up with a national standard for adoption, meanwhile here are various AHJ's labeling requirements, firefighters are going to save lives and let them burn upon seeing the labeling, do you call that sustainable construction?

Your advocacy of OVE framing surprises me since you are in architect in California, I don't know what's going on in Southern California, but here in the Bay Area our structural engineers are going wild with structural requirements, stud spacing is 16" o.c at the least, with all studs at panel breaks 3x6, all blocking at panel breaks 3x6, and all sole plates 3x6, this is minimum. My framer has written an article in This is Carpentry about the subject, here is his photo album on the same home, even at that the building inspector spent 7 straight days on the frame inspection, I was there for one to answer code questions for him, the inspector complemented him on his workmanship, but constantly tore the structural engineer apart requiring more and more details, even with a foot thick roll of plans and two 3" binders full of engineering details, and this is one house. This has become so bad that I now question the validity of wood framing anymore, so the home I have in design is using a complete steel frame taking all shear loads in the steel frame dispensing with plywood sheathing altogether. If I were building this Woodside home there would be neither I Joists nor gang-nail roof trusses.

Aren't you aware that the ICC is on a campaign to bring California style earthquake protection to the rest of the nation coinciding with the 200th anniversary of the New Madrid earthquake in 2011? We visited Renzo Piano's California Academy of Sciences a couple of month's ago, they made a big point about it being framed in steel, the ultimate sustainable building material since it can be recycled indefinitely. I spent quite a while in a corner of the museum looking at a green exhibit aimed at brainwashing school children, my 53 year old son finally asked: "Can't we go somewhere else Dad, this is terrible?" as we stood in an area dominated by about a 16' high wall showing Michael Mann's now debunked hockey stick, brainwashing children in political/religious agenda is reprehensible, since the most respected scientist in the world, Freeman Dyson has called all of this a secular religion, at this point I think an argument could be made that putting it into the codes violates our First Amendment right to freedom from religion, I have to wonder if the ACLU would be interested, they do defend such assaults on freedom, they did defend the Nazi's right to march in Skokie Illinois, a heavily Jewish community at the time.

In the Chicago suburb of Skokie, one out of every six Jewish citizens in the late 1970s was a survivor--or was directly related to a survivor--of the Holocaust. These victims of terror had resettled in America expecting to lead peaceful lives free from persecution. But their safe haven was shattered when a neo-Nazi group announced its intention to parade there in 1977. Philippa Strum's dramatic retelling of the events in Skokie (and in the courts) shows why the case ignited such enormous controversy and challenged our understanding of and commitment to First Amendment values. The debate was clear-cut: American Nazis claimed the right of free speech while their Jewish "targets" claimed the right to live without intimidation. The town, arguing that the march would assault the sensibilities of its citizens and spark violence, managed to win a court injunction against the marchers. In response, the American Civil Liberties Union took the case and successfully defended the Nazis' right to free speech.¹

¹ http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/strwhe.html

 

[mark handler]

You know nothing about my political/religious convictions.

Always Remember

Image Projected, is image Projected

When you attack me hold on.

 

[mark handler]

Definition for ConArb,

Light-frame construction, is a building technique based around structural members, usually called studs, which provide a stable frame to which interior and exterior wall coverings are attached, and covered by a roof comprising horizontal ceiling joists and sloping rafters (together forming a truss structure) or manufactured pre-fabricated roof trusses—all of which are covered by various sheathing materials to give weather resistance.

Modern light-frame structures usually gain strength from rigid panels (plywood and other plywood-like composites such as oriented strand board (OSB) used to form all or part of wall sections, but until recently carpenters employed various forms of diagonal bracing (called wind braces) to stabilize walls. Diagonal bracing remains a vital interior part of many roof systems, and in-wall wind braces are required by building codes in many municipalities or by individual state laws in the United States.

Light frame construction using standardized dimensional lumber has become the dominant construction method in North America and Australia because of its economy. Use of minimal structural materials allows builders to enclose a large area with minimal cost, while achieving a wide variety of architectural styles. The ubiquitous platform framing and the older balloon framing are the two different light frame construction systems used in North America.

 

[conarb]

Mark:

All you had to say is you meant traditional light framing and not my interpretation of what is now being called "lightweight framing", of course I've posted many time about the problems with I Joists, lightweight roof trusses, and OSB.

 

[incognito]

Without exception the "new" engineered framing techniques are substandard and doomed to failure over the long haul. All you have to do is look at homes built in the post WWII building blitz to see what is being proposed today as "green building" is just recycled, substandard crap. And I believe it is unjustified to blame NAHB for this mess. The members that I talk to are just as upset as I am with this so called "green building" crap. They for the most part are fighting it but recognize the train is heading down hill and the brakes are gone. Leave it to the architects (glorified interior designers), and engineers (desk jockeys' with to much time to kill) to fix something that is not broke. All you have to do is look at how you "earn" LEED points to realize what a joke the green codes are. The whole movement is nothing more than an Obama back door jobs plan. Throw money at the states for energy conservation but require excessive administration and energy testing by certified testers. The whole mess is nothing more than a ruse to dive into the pocket books of citizens for what amounts to a back door tax.

 

[mark handler]

Markf course I've posted many time about the problems with I Joists, lightweight roof trusses, and OSB.

And that means what?

 

[TJacobs]

Come on folks, let's keep it professional. As a moderator reading this thread I can't separate the politics from the topic. However, I fail to see how the Nazi march in Skokie has anything to do with the thread, or the building code. (My rookie year as a volunteer firefighter we were given "riot gear" for a standby because the Nazis were going to rally in our town too, "for recruitment".)

Al Gore made the global warming hoax political...no going back now. But let's stop with the personal attacks and keep it on subject.

 

[conarb]

Come on folks, let's keep it professional. As a moderator reading this thread I can't separate the politics from the topic. However, I fail to see how the Nazi march in Skokie has anything to do with the thread, or the building code.

I agree with the professional part, I only brought up the Skokie situation to illustrate that the ACLU does take on unpopular causes when our freedoms are being threatened, this train has run out of control for so long and so far that the ACLU may be the only organization with the resources to stop it. And remember, it is the codes and the inspectors who will be enforcing these codes, and at this point I think a lot of inspectors would like to see the codes they enforce return to their original intent, it's very discouraging to spend you life enforcing code mandates that you don't believe in.

 

[mark handler]

Mark: personal crusade for your political/religious convictions

Yes that is very professional.

 

[conarb]

Mark:I have been asked to tone it down, and will do so. Back to Uncle Bob's original post relative to two post corners, I see them not really a way to conserve energy, but rather a way to build cheaper, a received a 2009 book from a customer yesterday called "Cheap!", the author, Ellen Ruppell Shell, cites a statement by President William McKinley quotes (American Politician, 25th President of USA (1896-1901)

“I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.”

This tells me that cheapness was becoming a problem in this country over a 100 years ago, I have scanned the dustcover flaps, I haven't read the book yet, I just got it yesterday.View attachment 157

View attachment 157

/monthly_2010_07/cheap..jpg.9996d0eaec6d9cf938bd8d37ce166f8a.jpg

 

[mark handler]

"Cheap" To some means affordable to others, some people are looking to make housing more affordable.

Do I like the two stud corners, No, and putting in clips are not the answer.

There are many problems including but not limited to lateral forces.

My house has “true” 2x framing members.

Newer houses have the members at 1.5”x, does that mean my house will withstand an earthquake better than a new house, NO. Compensation was made for the reduction in the stud thickness.

If “Compensation” is made for the two stud corners, It may in time, become Typical light framing.

We all need to keep an open mind

Let us know if you gleam any useful info from the book.

 

[Uncle Bob]

With the world population approaching Seven Billion; the Green Movement will reach it's ultimate goal by 2022 ( that's less than 12 years from now); and we will be using Soylent Green as the final food source.

yum, yum;

Uncle Bob