Unusual situation with an exhibit structure.

[Daddy-0-]

I apologize in advance for my incredible lack of commercial knowledge. Here is the situation.

My father is involved with a club that has a festival/fair every year. They are open to the public three days per year where they display antique tractors, steam engines, saw mills, hot rods, etc. Basically a farm festival with 10-15,000 visitors each day. A few years ago they bought and moved (with a permit) an old church to the grounds. The church is used as an exhibit. People walk in the front and out the back with some displays to view on the way. Now they want to put electricity in the church with some outlets, lights and HVAC.

The problem. When there isn't anyone on the property they turn off the power to the whole place. If they put electricity in this 1890's church will they need to add egress lights and exit signage? If so how do you have battery back up egress lights when the power is off 350+ days per year? Any special exceptions or unique products that fit into this scenario?

Any other potential problems that you may see? They do have a permit. Sorry for the large number of questions. Thanks......

 

[chris kennedy]

Put the required lighting on a generator/ATS.

 

[cda]

Who will check if the exit signs and battery back up work, when the building is shut down the rest of the year????

As long as they work while occupied

 

[TimNY]

What's the occupancy load? Is it a straight run from front door to back door (obvious main exits)?

EDIT: although.. how can it be compliant now with no electricity? The means of egress needs to be illuminated?

 

[FM William Burns]

To my knowledge, the exit signage and lighting is only “required” when the building is occupied. There are products available that meet the UL924 standard such as self luminous or Photoluminescent Exit Signs



http://www.theexitstore.com/self-luminous-exit-signs.html



Regarding the illumination of the means of egress; that could be handled by the proposed installed electrical service lighting circuits. In the event the “required” illuminated exit signs with secondary power supplies are electrical, I see no reason these can’t be de-energized and charge the battery packs during the down periods when the building is vacant and re-established lets say, a week prior to the event to give the organization time to repair any defects discovered when the signage is re-energized….JMHO.

 

[Daddy-0-]

I don't know enough about exit signage. Can you remove the batteries when not in operation? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? How about smoke detectors FMWB? Would the smokes have to be hardwired in which case they would go to battery when the power was shut off?

The max occupancy is somewhere around 30. The church being very old has rudimentary wiring which will be replaced under the scope of the permit. They are upgrading in part for the public convenience and also to make the structure more safe/compliant. Keep in mind that it has only been on the property for a couple of years.

Chris K....if they use a generator it will then have to run 350+ days/year with no one in the building. Strange situation huh. The county treats all of their exhibits like amusement devices with an annual inspection before the show but this is the first instance where they needed a permit and commercial inspections. Thanks for all of the input.

 

[Daddy-0-]

Cool link FMWB. Thanks. Anything like that for smokes?

 

[cheyer]

Agree with fmwb, I couldn't see why the structure would require lighting and exit signange while not occupied?

 

[cda]

Smokes should not be require unless the local ahj requires them

Truthfully emergency lighting may not be required

Sounds like a museum some type of A occupancy, not sure if it might even fall under a B , do not have the book

 

[north star]

* * * *

From Section 303.1 in the 2006 IBC: - Up to 49 persons would be a Group "B"

occupancy........50 persons and above would be an A-3 ( museum ).

Would you classify this "old church" as an Special Amusement type structure?

From Section 403.2:

SPECIAL AMUSEMENT BUILDING. "A special amusement building is any

temporary or permanent building or portion thereof that is occupied for amusement,

entertainment or educational purposes and that contains a device or system

that conveys passengers or provides a walkway along, around or over a course in

any direction so arranged that the means of egress path is not readily apparent due

to visual or audio distractions or is intentionally confounded or is not readily available

because of the nature of the attraction or mode of conveyance through the building

or structure."

* * * *

 

[TimNY]

Not sure if this is a NY thing.. but per F1029.9 emergency illumination is not required for an A occupancy <50. F1029.7.1 does not require exit signs for spaces that only require 1 exit.

If exit signs are required, AFAIK there is no requirement for them to be internally illuminated.

 

[mtlogcabin]

The church is used as an exhibit. People walk in the front and out the back with some displays to view on the way.

The max occupancy is somewhere around 30.

We might be over thinking this one. It sounds rather small and most of these events are during daylight hours so emergency illumination may not be neccessary if there is ample natural light. FMB link addressed the exit sign requirements

 

[north star]

* * * *

Daddy-o,

Is your question, because they want to now install electricity, lights & HVAC in

this structure, is Emergency Lighting & illuminated Exit signs "required"?

Based on the discussions above, I am inclined to say No!......Good idea "Yes",

but not required [ IMO ].

* * * *

 

[FM William Burns]

Daddy-O,

Here you go:

http://www.wirelessprotection.net/wireless-smoke-detector.html

http://www.safetyproductsunlimited.com/wireless_smoke_alarm.html

http://www.firstalertstore.com/store/start.asp?category_id=59

Note: The historic issue with the battery in Onelink has been corrected!

 

[fireguy]

http://www.theexitstore.com/exit_sign_info/facts-about-tritium-signs.html

http://www.epa.gov/radtown/exit-signs.html

http://www.everglow.us/?photoluminescent=20&signs=replace-tritium-exit-signs

The last tritium signs I sold had provision to send the old signs to the provider, so not all of the information given by the last source may not be true.

 

[FM William Burns]

The last tritium signs I sold had provision to send the old signs to the provider, so not all of the information given by the last source may not be true.

????????????

 

[TJacobs]

Fire watch during the 3-day thing, self-luminous exit signage...

 

[TimNY]

Why require self-luminous signage if the means of egress isn't illuminated by emergency power? I don't think either is required; not sure if the sections I quoted are part of the IFC or a NY modification.

 

[JBI]

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/ibc/index.htm

Now everyone has the I-codes, every published year AND you can backtrack to all published codes on their site (NYS included Tim)

Edit: BTW, not a 'special amusement building' IMHO.

 

[TimNY]

per John's link.. 1006.3 requires emergency illumination only when 2 or more exits are required. Got lost trying to find exit signage.

 

[hlfireinspector]

Will the building qualify as a Historic structure?

2006 Existing Building Code

1105.12 Exit signs. The code official may accept alternative

exit sign locations where such signs would damage the historic

character of the building or structure. Such signs shall identify

​

the exits and exit path.

 

[Daddy-0-]

Is your question, because they want to now install electricity, lights & HVAC inthis structure, is Emergency Lighting & illuminated Exit signs "required"?

Based on the discussions above, I am inclined to say No!......Good idea "Yes",

but not required [ IMO ]

.I just assumed not knowing much about commercial work that full signage would be required. If they can get by with a few of the continuous illuminated exit signs they are home free. I took a tour of the church on Sunday. It is very small and cool. It was an old balloon framed barn that was converted to a church in the 1890's. They are going to try to hide the air handler in the steeple to keep the historic look. Should be interesting for the required service platform provisions of the mechanical code. Thank you for all of the responses.

 

[cda]

Picture!!!!!!!!