jar546
Forum Coordinator
In crawlspace.
Comments.....
Comments.....
-
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Water Heater Installation
- Thread starter jar546
- Start date
Re: Water Heater Installation
Ok,
Providing that the crawl space is below final grade; there is no way the water heater in that crawl space can meet the requirement of 2006 IRC, P2803.6, 7..
How do ya'll enforce the following code requirement; or do you?
"P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge
piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature- relief
valve or combination valve shall:
7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable
by the building occupants."
I'm guessing that the majority don't enforce this requirement.
Uncle Bob
Ok,
Providing that the crawl space is below final grade; there is no way the water heater in that crawl space can meet the requirement of 2006 IRC, P2803.6, 7..
How do ya'll enforce the following code requirement; or do you?
"P2803.6.1 Requirements for discharge pipe. The discharge
piping serving a pressure-relief valve, temperature- relief
valve or combination valve shall:
7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable
by the building occupants."
I'm guessing that the majority don't enforce this requirement.
Uncle Bob
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Water Heater Installation
UPC has similar lanquage and the state interpreted that to mean no more water heaters in a crawlspace. Been enforcing it that way since mid 2006. Will let them replace them if originally located in crawlspace.
Now if they will only do the same for mechanical equipment
UPC has similar lanquage and the state interpreted that to mean no more water heaters in a crawlspace. Been enforcing it that way since mid 2006. Will let them replace them if originally located in crawlspace.
Now if they will only do the same for mechanical equipment
Moscow
Bronze Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
I know its not right be we have some change outs that are in the crawl like that, what I make them do is 90 the t&p drain up and out to the out side no closer then 6 inchs to the grade. Then they have to drill a 1/4 in hole in the heel of 90 that is in the crawl space, that acts like a vent and a drain so it will not freez if the t&p spits or opens up just a little. It works every time with no problems yet.
Justin
I know its not right be we have some change outs that are in the crawl like that, what I make them do is 90 the t&p drain up and out to the out side no closer then 6 inchs to the grade. Then they have to drill a 1/4 in hole in the heel of 90 that is in the crawl space, that acts like a vent and a drain so it will not freez if the t&p spits or opens up just a little. It works every time with no problems yet.
Justin
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Water Heater Installation
9. Be installed to flow by gravity..
So why have the contractor do all that extra work?
P2502.2 Additions, alterations or repairs.
Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to any plumbing system shall conform to that required for a new plumbing system without requiring the existing plumbing system to comply with all the requirements of this code. Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing system to become unsafe, insanitary or overloaded.
Minor additions, alterations, renovations and repairs to existing plumbing systems shall be permitted in the same manner and arrangement as in the existing system, provided that such repairs or replacement are not hazardous and are approved.
That would not allow the T&P drain to be readily observable by the building occupants or
9. Be installed to flow by gravity..
So why have the contractor do all that extra work?
P2502.2 Additions, alterations or repairs.
Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to any plumbing system shall conform to that required for a new plumbing system without requiring the existing plumbing system to comply with all the requirements of this code. Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing system to become unsafe, insanitary or overloaded.
Minor additions, alterations, renovations and repairs to existing plumbing systems shall be permitted in the same manner and arrangement as in the existing system, provided that such repairs or replacement are not hazardous and are approved.
Re: Water Heater Installation
Most AHJs don't enforce this code requirement.
"7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable
by the building occupants."
Two places that would be "readily observable by the building occupants", would be near the front door or garage entry.
I was asked by a lady (friend) to look at a pipe that was in her garage. There was a copper pipe protruding through her ceiling above where she parked her car. Upon further investigation; I found that the T&P drain line from her water heater in the attic was terminated at that point.
Plumbing is one of the most neglected parts of the codes; as far as enforcement is conserned; and one of the most important.
Uncle Bob
Most AHJs don't enforce this code requirement.
"7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable
by the building occupants."
Two places that would be "readily observable by the building occupants", would be near the front door or garage entry.
I was asked by a lady (friend) to look at a pipe that was in her garage. There was a copper pipe protruding through her ceiling above where she parked her car. Upon further investigation; I found that the T&P drain line from her water heater in the attic was terminated at that point.
Plumbing is one of the most neglected parts of the codes; as far as enforcement is conserned; and one of the most important.
Uncle Bob
Yikes
Gold Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
UB - are you saying that the garage installation in your example would not be readily observable?
I regularly have mechanical engineers do this kind of detail in garages, over showers and sinks, or just to a planter outdoors.
UB - are you saying that the garage installation in your example would not be readily observable?
I regularly have mechanical engineers do this kind of detail in garages, over showers and sinks, or just to a planter outdoors.
Re: Water Heater Installation
Need Claification on P2803.6.1 IRC2006
5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors.
Leads me to believe to floor is allowed along as it's 6" from the floor. YES?
10. Not terminate more than 6" above the Floor or Waste receptor.
Does this mean a waste receptor could be installed 1-2' off the floor as long as the discharge pipe remains at 6" above the waste receptor? Waste receptor can be raise off the floor. Yes?
Need Claification on P2803.6.1 IRC2006
5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors.
Leads me to believe to floor is allowed along as it's 6" from the floor. YES?
10. Not terminate more than 6" above the Floor or Waste receptor.
Does this mean a waste receptor could be installed 1-2' off the floor as long as the discharge pipe remains at 6" above the waste receptor? Waste receptor can be raise off the floor. Yes?
steveray
SAWHORSE
Re: Water Heater Installation
P2803.6.1 Requirements of discharge pipe. The outlet of
a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination
thereof, shall not be directly connected to the drainage
system. The discharge from the relief valve shall be piped
full size separately to the floor, to the outside of the building
or to an indirect waste receptor located inside the building.
In areas subject to freezing, the relief valve shall discharge
through an air gap into an indirect waste receptor located
within a heated space, or by other approved means. The discharge
shall be installed in a manner that does not cause personal
injury or property damage and that is readily
observable by the building occupants. The discharge from a
relief valve shall not be trapped. The diameter of the discharge
piping shall not be less than the diameter of the relief
valve outlet. The discharge pipe shall be installed so as to
drain by gravity flow and shall terminate atmospherically
not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor. The outlet
end of the discharge pipe shall not be threaded and such discharge
pipe shall not have a valve installed.
Think that means 6 inches above the floor period! That is my CT amended 2003 IRC though. Free E codes don't seem to have the info at all!
P2803.6.1 Requirements of discharge pipe. The outlet of
a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination
thereof, shall not be directly connected to the drainage
system. The discharge from the relief valve shall be piped
full size separately to the floor, to the outside of the building
or to an indirect waste receptor located inside the building.
In areas subject to freezing, the relief valve shall discharge
through an air gap into an indirect waste receptor located
within a heated space, or by other approved means. The discharge
shall be installed in a manner that does not cause personal
injury or property damage and that is readily
observable by the building occupants. The discharge from a
relief valve shall not be trapped. The diameter of the discharge
piping shall not be less than the diameter of the relief
valve outlet. The discharge pipe shall be installed so as to
drain by gravity flow and shall terminate atmospherically
not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor. The outlet
end of the discharge pipe shall not be threaded and such discharge
pipe shall not have a valve installed.
Think that means 6 inches above the floor period! That is my CT amended 2003 IRC though. Free E codes don't seem to have the info at all!
skipharper
Registered User
Re: Water Heater Installation
Here is my nickels worth! First of all when we say crawlspace, that picture is beautiful! I hate water heaters in the crawl and here is my angle.
1) Put a pan under the water heater which in my opinion is required because someone had the word "structural" removed from the language which now I think just says "damage" can occur.
2) If grade is not an issue then drop the relief line to the pan which is an indirect waste receptor
3) Terminate pan drain per that section. This is when you can usually get the heater out of the crawl because you cannot terminate pan drain 6"-24" above grade!! :lol:
Here is my nickels worth! First of all when we say crawlspace, that picture is beautiful! I hate water heaters in the crawl and here is my angle.
1) Put a pan under the water heater which in my opinion is required because someone had the word "structural" removed from the language which now I think just says "damage" can occur.
2) If grade is not an issue then drop the relief line to the pan which is an indirect waste receptor
3) Terminate pan drain per that section. This is when you can usually get the heater out of the crawl because you cannot terminate pan drain 6"-24" above grade!! :lol:
beach
Gold Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
Isn't the reason for the maximum 6" off the floor or ground because you don't want scalding hot water possibly spraying someone when the t&P goes off?
Isn't the reason for the maximum 6" off the floor or ground because you don't want scalding hot water possibly spraying someone when the t&P goes off?
skipharper
Registered User
Re: Water Heater Installation
Yes, for the T & P discharge pipe. For the pan drain, 6"-24"
Yes, for the T & P discharge pipe. For the pan drain, 6"-24"
Re: Water Heater Installation
This was interesting, while researching P2803.6.1 My 2003IRC code said: The outlet end of the discharge pipe shall be threaded and such discharge pipe shall not have a valve installed.
This was changed in the 2006IRC.
This was interesting, while researching P2803.6.1 My 2003IRC code said: The outlet end of the discharge pipe shall be threaded and such discharge pipe shall not have a valve installed.
This was changed in the 2006IRC.
Mac
Gold Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
Funny - my 2003 IRC says "... shall NOT be threaded"
Typo?
Funny - my 2003 IRC says "... shall NOT be threaded"
Typo?
Re: Water Heater Installation
Mac,
Yes, it appears to be a typo.
I checked it again, pipe shall be threaded. Maybe I should sell this code book on Ebay!
Seventh printing: Nov. 2004
My commentary code book sez: not be threaded
Mac,
Yes, it appears to be a typo.
I checked it again, pipe shall be threaded. Maybe I should sell this code book on Ebay!
Seventh printing: Nov. 2004
My commentary code book sez: not be threaded
Re: Water Heater Installation
If the discharge pipe discharges to the floor.. I read it being ok IRC 2803.6.1 (granted, I'm not in my office, so I'm looking at my home version.. 2003).
If the crawl space has access from the house.. it's readily observable.. the fact that the residents choose to not readily observe it is beyond the scope of the code. Otherwise, let's write a code change that it discharges into the kitchen sink.
the fact that a crawl space is less convienent than a basement is well.. the owner's problem... not the codes.
If the discharge pipe discharges to the floor.. I read it being ok IRC 2803.6.1 (granted, I'm not in my office, so I'm looking at my home version.. 2003).
If the crawl space has access from the house.. it's readily observable.. the fact that the residents choose to not readily observe it is beyond the scope of the code. Otherwise, let's write a code change that it discharges into the kitchen sink.
the fact that a crawl space is less convienent than a basement is well.. the owner's problem... not the codes.
fatboy
Administrator
Re: Water Heater Installation
I agree, within 6 inches of the floor is the requirement, period. Not a good installation IMHO, but that's what the code says.
I agree, within 6 inches of the floor is the requirement, period. Not a good installation IMHO, but that's what the code says.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Re: Water Heater Installation
The question of the year is:
Can you install a water heater in a below grade crawlspace and meet all of the code requirements?
The question of the year is:
Can you install a water heater in a below grade crawlspace and meet all of the code requirements?
fatboy
Administrator
Re: Water Heater Installation
Which would require one to determine if P2801.5 (2006) would apply, fortunatelly, I have few crawlspaces, and have never had a water heater in one.
IF, I had to make a call, I would have to say P2801.5 does apply, if there is no floor drain to sanitary sewer in the crawlspace. But, I would allow a pump system under alternate methods. JMHO
Which would require one to determine if P2801.5 (2006) would apply, fortunatelly, I have few crawlspaces, and have never had a water heater in one.
IF, I had to make a call, I would have to say P2801.5 does apply, if there is no floor drain to sanitary sewer in the crawlspace. But, I would allow a pump system under alternate methods. JMHO
skipharper
Registered User
Re: Water Heater Installation
To the question of the year: NO
To the question of the year: NO
Re: Water Heater Installation
"Can you install a water heater in a below grade crawlspace and meet all of the code requirements?" No.
Most water heaters that are installed above ground level are not being required to meet the code requirements; so why would water heaters in basements and crawl spaces be any different?
The fast majority of building officials and inspectors are not, and will not enforce the water heater installation requirements of the codes.
Uncle Bob
"Can you install a water heater in a below grade crawlspace and meet all of the code requirements?" No.
Most water heaters that are installed above ground level are not being required to meet the code requirements; so why would water heaters in basements and crawl spaces be any different?
The fast majority of building officials and inspectors are not, and will not enforce the water heater installation requirements of the codes.
Uncle Bob
Re: Water Heater Installation
jar546 wrote:
The question I would have is how you can disapprove this installation, or why you would even want to.
If installed up high how many require that permanent or fold-away stairways meet IRC311 requirements, for egress stairs?
jar546 wrote:
Yes, a water heater is allowed, by code, to be installed in an underfloor area.
The question I would have is how you can disapprove this installation, or why you would even want to.
If installed up high how many require that permanent or fold-away stairways meet IRC311 requirements, for egress stairs?
Plans Approver
Silver Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
Doesn't M2005.2.1 say crawl space installation is permitted in a backhanded sort of way?
Doesn't M2005.2.1 say crawl space installation is permitted in a backhanded sort of way?
Code:
M2005.2.1 Water heater access. Access to water heaters that are located in an attic or underfloor crawl space is permitted to be through a closet located in a sleeping room or bathroom where ventilation of those spaces is in accordance with this code.beach
Gold Member
Re: Water Heater Installation
So.....if you say you can't put a water heater in a crawlspace, then you can't put one in a basement! We don't have a lot of basements around here...do you guys allow water heaters in basements? Do you allow them in crawlspaces if you allow them in basements?
So.....if you say you can't put a water heater in a crawlspace, then you can't put one in a basement! We don't have a lot of basements around here...do you guys allow water heaters in basements? Do you allow them in crawlspaces if you allow them in basements?