When to call em on it?

[rktect 1]

I can't tell if I am just being an a-hole or covering for arkitects.

I have a basment remodel for a SFR. It was submitted by "XXX design and construction co." or similar. No stamp is required to be on this set/single page even though we do require it on a lot of residential work. But the plan does specifically call out to contact the "arkitect" several times if yada yada yada does not meet yada yada yada.

I tried to find out through the internet who owns the business but I can only find its location which appears to be a residence. No website. AIA does not list this business, not that he would have to be AIA.

So would I just be a prick at this point to write a review comment to remove the term "arkitect" or provide a signed and stamped plan?

 

[alora]

Re: When to call em on it?

You would be such if that was the only plan review comment. Some state statutes allow the AHJ to make minor corrections to drawings, in lieu of having the design professional or architect make those needed changes.

If there are additional comments, then just include it and redline it on the plan review set (if you [municipality] do that sort of thing).

 

[TJacobs]

Re: When to call em on it?

I can't tell if I am just being an a-hole or covering for arkitects.I have a basment remodel for a SFR. It was submitted by "XXX design and construction co." or similar. No stamp is required to be on this set/single page even though we do require it on a lot of residential work. But the plan does specifically call out to contact the "arkitect" several times if yada yada yada does not meet yada yada yada.

I tried to find out through the internet who owns the business but I can only find its location which appears to be a residence. No website. AIA does not list this business, not that he would have to be AIA.

So would I just be a prick at this point to write a review comment to remove the term "arkitect" or provide a signed and stamped plan?

I have always held the position that a design professional can draw anything they like and not seal it if a seal is not required for the project. At least the drawing should be a lot better than the napkin plans with tomato sauce on them we get around here. However, just because there is no seal required does not mean the actual designer responsible for the plan should not be identified on the plan with full contact information. You can also look the name up on the IDPR website (you probably already know that).

Are there are major flaws with the plan, or are you just worried someone is practicing architecture without a license?

 

[rktect 1]

Re: When to call em on it?

I actually agree. If this was the only note I'd probably blow it off.

There are a total of about 10 notes between all reviews (MEP and Plan). Only two from me, including the arkitect note.

 

[alora]

Re: When to call em on it?

Test, test.

architect

 

[alora]

Re: When to call em on it?

So, what's the reason why "a r c h i t e c t" is replaced with architect?

 

[Coug Dad]

Re: When to call em on it?

Long running inside joke by the moderators

 

[alora]

Re: When to call em on it?

And we wonder why the population in general views architects somewhere between handy-men & contractors.

FYI ... the above was rhetorical.

 

[Coug Dad]

Re: When to call em on it?

There is also one that equates those who practice law to devils with ties.

 

[rktect 1]

Re: When to call em on it?

Well, it's a good thing, that as an arkitect, I can't spell properly.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When to call em on it?

I have always held the position that a design professional can draw anything they like and not seal it if a seal is not required for the project. At least the drawing should be a lot better than the napkin plans with tomato sauce on them we get around here. However, just because there is no seal required does not mean the actual designer responsible for the plan should not be identified on the plan with full contact information. You can also look the name up on the IDPR website (you probably already know that).Are there are major flaws with the plan, or are you just worried someone is practicing architecture without a license?

Many Architecture laws require the architect to seal anything submitted to a public agency.

Generally, this means that even work exempt from requiring an architect must be still sealed by the architect who prepared it.

Illinois has such a requirement. see (225 ILCS 305/14) (from Ch. 111, par. 1314)

This in no way reduces my confidence in any other position you have always had.

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: When to call em on it?

I'd send back a plan review comment asking who the individual is that is referenced? If the inspector needs a clarification in the field, how is that to be addressed if the identity is held as secure as that for Clark Kent? Tell 'em to take the mask off and reveal to the world that secret identity!!! :lol:

 

[rktect 1]

Re: When to call em on it?

Thanks brudgers,

You're a veritable font of useful information.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: When to call em on it?

Is this an exempt building, the preparer shall replace all occurance of Architect with Designer or Building Designer or similar title.

If this is a non-exempt building then it shall be sealed. Whoever prepares the plans shall be identified. If it is exempt, it shall at least be signed with printed name clearly identified and not obscured by signature.

That is how I would view it.

In Oregon, it is required regardless of what the project is that the preparer of the plans is identified.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: When to call em on it?

I have always held the position that a design professional can draw anything they like and not seal it if a seal is not required for the project. At least the drawing should be a lot better than the napkin plans with tomato sauce on them we get around here. However, just because there is no seal required does not mean the actual designer responsible for the plan should not be identified on the plan with full contact information. You can also look the name up on the IDPR website (you probably already know that).Are there are major flaws with the plan, or are you just worried someone is practicing architecture without a license?

Many Architecture laws require the man with pencil who draw to seal anything submitted to a public agency.

Generally, this means that even work exempt from requiring an man with pencil who draw must be still sealed by the man with pencil who draw who prepared it.

Illinois has such a requirement. see (225 ILCS 305/14) (from Ch. 111, par. 1314)

This in no way reduces my confidence in any other position you have always had.

It pays to actually read the entire law. I have posted the applicable sections below and underlined the appropriate passages to prove I don't make this stuff up. I will admit that we do have a local amendment requiring a design professional's involvement in more projects than the state, which we are allowed to do as a home rule unit of government. Here is the rest of the law that authorizes us to do what I said we do:

(225 ILCS 305/3) (from Ch. 111, par. 1303)

(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2020)

Sec. 3. Application of Act. Nothing in this Act shall be deemed or construed to prevent the practice of structural engineering as defined in the Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989, the practice of professional engineering as defined in the Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989, or the preparation of documents used to prescribe work to be done inside buildings for non?loadbearing interior construction, furnishings, fixtures and equipment, or the offering or preparation of environmental analysis, feasibility studies, programming or construction management services by persons other than those licensed in accordance with this Act, the Structural Engineering Practice Act of 1989 or the Professional Engineering Practice Act of 1989.

Nothing contained in this Act shall prevent the draftsmen, students, project representatives and other employees of those lawfully practicing as licensed architects under the provisions of this Act, from acting under the responsible control of their employers, or to prevent the employment of project representatives for enlargement or alteration of buildings or any parts thereof, or prevent such project representatives from acting under the responsible control of the licensed architect by whom the construction documents including drawings and specifications of any such building, enlargement or alteration were prepared.

Nothing in this Act or any other Act shall prevent a licensed architect from practicing interior design services. Nothing in this Act shall be construed as requiring the services of an interior designer for the interior designing of a single family residence.

The involvement of a licensed architect is not required for the following:

(A) The building, remodeling or repairing of any building or other structure outside of the corporate limits of any city or village, where such building or structure is to be, or is used for farm purposes, or for the purposes of outbuildings or auxiliary buildings in connection with such farm premises.

(B) The construction, remodeling or repairing of a detached single family residence on a single lot.

© The construction, remodeling or repairing of a two?family residence of wood frame construction on a single lot, not more than two stories and basement in height.

(D) Interior design services for buildings which do not involve life safety or structural changes.

However, when an ordinance of a unit of local government requires the involvement of a licensed architect for any buildings included in the preceding paragraphs (A) through (D), the requirements of this Act shall apply. All buildings not included in the preceding paragraphs (A) through (D), including multi?family buildings and buildings previously exempt from the involvement of a licensed architect under those paragraphs but subsequently non?exempt due to a change in occupancy or use, are subject to the requirements of this Act. Interior alterations which result in life safety or structural changes of the building are subject to the requirements of this Act.

(Source: P.A. 96?610, eff. 8?24?09.)

(225 ILCS 305/6) (from Ch. 111, par. 1306)

(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2020)

Sec. 6. Technical submissions. All technical submissions intended for use in construction in the State of Illinois shall be prepared and administered in accordance with standards of reasonable professional skill and diligence. Care shall be taken to reflect the requirements of State statutes and, where applicable, county and municipal building ordinances in such submissions. In recognition that architects are licensed for the protection of the public health, safety and welfare, submissions shall be of such quality and scope, and be so administered, as to conform to professional standards.

Technical submissions are the designs, drawings and specifications which establish the scope of the architecture to be constructed, the standard of quality for materials, workmanship, equipment, and construction systems, and the studies and other technical reports and calculations prepared in the course of the practice of architecture.

No officer, board, commission, or other public entity who receives technical submissions shall accept for filing or approval any technical submissions relating to services requiring the involvement of an architect that do not bear the seal and signature of an architect licensed under this Act.

It is unlawful to affix one's seal to technical submissions if it masks the true identity of the person who actually exercised responsible control of the preparation of such work. An architect who seals and signs technical submissions is not responsible for damage caused by subsequent changes to or uses of those technical submissions where the subsequent changes or uses, including changes or uses made by State or local governmental agencies, are not authorized or approved in writing by the architect who originally sealed and signed the technical submissions.

(Source: P.A. 96?610, eff. 8?24?09.)

Since the project in question does NOT require the involvement of an architect a seal is not required even if one is involved, unless required by a local ordinance. So RickAstoria could actually work here, we just don't have a title for what he does...

 

[rktect 1]

Re: When to call em on it?

Yes, but the question then remains, can he, the designer or architect or engineer, GC or in this case the man who owns the construction company who submitted the drawings, use the term architect on the set of plans in reference to containg someone if something in the field differs or changes are required? I don't know who the architect is. One was not required for the project but the submitted plans does include the reference several times to contact the architect, not the GC, engineer, design professional.

Not only is the question can he use the term architect but should I be the one asking for the removal of the term or proof of a licensed architect?

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: When to call em on it?

Yes, but the question then remains, can he, the designer or man with pencil who draw or engineer, GC or in this case the man who owns the construction company who submitted the drawings, use the term man with pencil who draw on the set of plans in reference to containg someone if something in the field differs or changes are required? I don't know who the man with pencil who draw is. One was not required for the project but the submitted plans does include the reference several times to contact the man with pencil who draw, not the GC, engineer, design professional.Not only is the question can he use the term man with pencil who draw but should I be the one asking for the removal of the term or proof of a licensed man with pencil who draw?

That depends on the state. If I read the text posted above, it is unlawful to say you are an arkitect if you aren't.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: When to call em on it?

Yes, but the question then remains, can he, the designer or man with pencil who draw or engineer, GC or in this case the man who owns the construction company who submitted the drawings, use the term man with pencil who draw on the set of plans in reference to containg someone if something in the field differs or changes are required? I don't know who the man with pencil who draw is. One was not required for the project but the submitted plans does include the reference several times to contact the man with pencil who draw, not the GC, engineer, design professional.Not only is the question can he use the term man with pencil who draw but should I be the one asking for the removal of the term or proof of a licensed man with pencil who draw?

No, if they are not an architect, that can't say they are, even if an architect is not required for the project. I hope nobody except brudgers misinterpreted my first response to your post.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: When to call em on it?

Building Designer would be an accepted title.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When to call em on it?

[snip irrelevant response.]

If an architect prepares documents for construction in Illinois, they have to seal it.

Even on a project that does not require an architect.

The law is absolutely clear.

 

[Heaven]

Re: When to call em on it?

I would not accept reference to an architect without contact information for the architect. I would suspect that the drawings were done by an architect for another project and all the other architect information was removed. Which means the set of plans very well may be being submitted illegally. I have had plans submitted done by architects located other states that do not share climatic conditions, and they are always very happy to get my phone inquiry, and very pissed at their former clients.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: When to call em on it?

[snip irrelevant response.]

If an man with pencil who draw prepares documents for construction in Illinois, they have to seal it.

Even on a project that does not require an man with pencil who draw.

The law is absolutely clear.

It is absolutely clear that if the drawings are prepared by an RDP then it shall be stamped by the RDP who prepared it.

If legally prepared by anyone else, it shall at least identify who prepared it and should have the signature of the person who prepared it along with name.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: When to call em on it?

[snip irrelevant response.]

If an man with pencil who draw prepares documents for construction in Illinois, they have to seal it.

Even on a project that does not require an man with pencil who draw.

The law is absolutely clear.

Is this clear enough for you?

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/who/AR/Design_Code_Manual.pdf Page 6

GUIDELINES FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS

Code enforcement officials’ responsibilities relative to the design professions licensing and practice Acts include, but

are not limited to, the following:

Technical Submissions Reviews

Technical submissions for construction projects filed for approval for buildings, structures, or engineering works and

plats of survey are to be prepared under the direct supervision and control of the design professional sealing and

signing the documents in accordance with Guidelines for Technical Submissions as they apply to the specific

project. Such documents should be reviewed by the code enforcement official to assure conformance with local

laws, zoning, deed restrictions, codes and regulations, as well as applicable State and Federal laws. Technical

submissions for all non-exempt buildings or works are to have the seal(s) and original signature(s) of the design

professional(s) with a current valid license who prepared or caused the submissions to be prepared. Seals shall be

affixed in accordance with the respective Acts. Technical submissions for exempt projects shall also comply with

all standards and codes, but shall not require a design professional’s seal. The Professional Design Firm

registration number shall be included on the technical submissions.

The bold italic underline was done by me so you wouldn't miss it again. But then again, you missed the bold underlined text of the actual LAW I provided, so I don't hold out much hope.

 

[RickAstoria]

Re: When to call em on it?

[snip irrelevant response.]

If an man with pencil who draw prepares documents for construction in Illinois, they have to seal it.

Even on a project that does not require an man with pencil who draw.

The law is absolutely clear.

Is this clear enough for you?

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/who/AR/Design_Code_Manual.pdf Page 6

GUIDELINES FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS

Code enforcement officials’ responsibilities relative to the design professions licensing and practice Acts include, but

are not limited to, the following:

Technical Submissions Reviews

Technical submissions for construction projects filed for approval for buildings, structures, or engineering works and

plats of survey are to be prepared under the direct supervision and control of the design professional sealing and

signing the documents in accordance with Guidelines for Technical Submissions as they apply to the specific

project. Such documents should be reviewed by the code enforcement official to assure conformance with local

laws, zoning, deed restrictions, codes and regulations, as well as applicable State and Federal laws. Technical

submissions for all non-exempt buildings or works are to have the seal(s) and original signature(s) of the design

professional(s) with a current valid license who prepared or caused the submissions to be prepared. Seals shall be

affixed in accordance with the respective Acts. Technical submissions for exempt projects shall also comply with

all standards and codes, but shall not require a design professional’s seal. The Professional Design Firm

registration number shall be included on the technical submissions.

The bold italic underline was done by me so you wouldn't miss it again. But then again, you missed the bold underlined text of the actual LAW I provided, so I don't hold out much hope.

An Illinois registered architect shall stamp ALL drawings for ALL projects - prepared under his responsible charge. Exempt buildings shall not require a stamp for exempt buildings because exempt buildings are not required to have Construction Documents prepared by an Architect. If drawings for exempt buildings were prepared by an Illinois Registered Architect, it shall be stamped as required by other laws and regulations.

What you quoted does not negate the Illinois registered architect's responsibility to stamp drawings prepared under his responsible charge.

Besides, what you are quoting from is a handbook. The text of the statutes of law trumps the guideline manual. The manual you quoted is a commentary of the law but not the law itself. No more then the ICC Commentary of the codes.