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Window alarms

Discussion in 'Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs' started by Rick18071, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    2015 ISPSC 305.4 Structure wall as a barrier. Where a wall of a dwelling
    or structure serves as part of the barrier and where doors
    or windows provide direct access to the pool or spa through
    that wall, one of the following shall be required:
    1. Operable windows having a sill height of less than 48
    inches (1219 mm) above the indoor finished floor and
    doors shall have an alarm that produces an audible
    warning when the window, door or their screens are
    opened. The alarm shall be listed and labeled as a water
    hazard entrance alarm in accordance with UL 2017. In
    dwellings or structures not required to be Accessible
    units, Type A units or Type B units, the operable parts
    of the alarm deactivation switches shall be located 54
    inches (1372 mm) or more above the finished floor. In
    dwellings or structures required to be Accessible units,
    Type A units or Type B units, the operable parts of the
    alarm deactivation switches shall be located not greater
    than 54 inches (1372 mm) and not less than 48 inches
    (1219 mm) above the finished floor.
    2. A safety cover that is listed and labeled in accordance
    with ASTM F 1346 is installed for the pools and spas.
    3. An approved means of protection, such as self-closing
    doors with self-latching devices, is provided. Such
    means of protection shall provide a degree of protection
    that is not less than the protection afforded by Item 1 or
    2.

    1. #1 seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what story that a window that has direct access to a pool. Do you think that this means all the windows on every story that is above a pool area need an alarm?

    2. #1 just specifies 48' above the finished floor. Does this rule out unfinished floors?

    3. Also #1 seems to now require the window screens and storm doors besides the glass window or door also need alarms. What do you think?

    4. Does #3 says we can approve a different means of protection. Should we require both the glass windows and screens to be made permanently to open no more than 4" or have a guard up to 48" above the floor with less than 4" openings?

    5. Can we do 4 just above with just the glass window or just the screen?

    5. But I am worried about the emergency escape egress windows. Do you think we can allow any of the below taken from the IRC 312.2.1 for low window sill protection to be used?

    1. Operable windows with openings that will not allow
    a 4-inch-diameter (102 mm) sphere to pass through
    the opening where the opening is in its largest
    opened position.
    2. Operable windows that are provided with window fall
    prevention devices that comply with ASTM F 2090.
    3. Operable windows that are provided with window
    opening control devices that comply with Section
    R312.2.2.
    R312.2.2 Window opening control devices. Window
    opening control devices shall comply with ASTM F 2090.
    The window opening control device, after operation to
    release the control device allowing the window to fully
    open, shall not reduce the net clear opening area of the window
    unit to less than the area required by Section R310.2.1.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  2. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    crickets.
     
  3. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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  4. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    My most concern was about emergency escape egress windows. Can window fall
    prevention devices that comply with ASTM F 2090 comply with ISPSC 305.4 (3)? Sometimes they my need two of these guards to get to 48" above the floor.
     
  5. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    I'd leave that up to the AHJ to accept or deny. Why not just use alarms?
     
  6. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Because I don't thing alarms are the answer. I been at houses that had a second permit for something else and the alarms are gone or the batteries are out or dead and I don't think I can make them put them back up if i'm there just to inspect the new HVAC. Would you?

    I think the code should require a fence between the house and pool area.
     
  7. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    1. Does the 40th floor of the hotel have direct access to the pool area? How many stories does it take....?
    2. If the finish is unfinished, then it is finished....
    3. Yep
    4.Yep
    5.I would think so.
    6.Low windows on the first floor should not be an issue, and then see #1.....
     
  8. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    Education and communication is the key in those situations.

    Every dog can bite, but we don/t muzzle every dog.
     
    steveray and tmurray like this.
  9. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

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    I struggle with a requirement to put alarms on your windows/doors for a hazard on your own property.

    We require protection from adjacent properties (fence with self-closing gate). But there is no requirement for protection between the house and the pool located on the same lot.

    I would hope, and likely be disappointed, that parents would understand the risk and educate their children accordingly.
     
  10. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    Knee jerk reactions when famous/ rich kids die.....Think James Baker and Bodie Miller.....Parents can't possibly be at fault, it was the evil inanimate object.....
     
    my250r11 likes this.
  11. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    The code is so badly written in this area. the 2009 had a requirement that the door pool alarm deactivation switch had to be at least 54". The new code doesn't say where it needs to be for doors or windows except for types A & B accessible units. Do you think we need to enforce the old 54" requirement except for A & B units?
     

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