skipharper
Registered User
Is a 20 minute rated fixed window and frame allowed by the 2006 IRC between the dining room of a single family dwelling and an attached garage?
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Windows
- Thread starter skipharper
- Start date
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Windows
Skip: Welcome to the BB. Not sure just what the USBC is! Are you under the IRC? Need a little more info! :roll:
Skip: Welcome to the BB. Not sure just what the USBC is! Are you under the IRC? Need a little more info! :roll:
skipharper
Registered User
Re: Windows
Thanks RJJ. I corrected myself, 2006 IRC. I am in Va. We have The Uniform Statewide Building Code which references the IRC with va. ammendments.
Thanks RJJ. I corrected myself, 2006 IRC. I am in Va. We have The Uniform Statewide Building Code which references the IRC with va. ammendments.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Windows
I am at home now so I will have to look at the code in the morning. If the window does not exceed the size of the permitted door and no door exist I say yes. However, I need to read the code. My local code calls for 1hr. So I don't use that section often. Where did the rating come from for the window.
I am at home now so I will have to look at the code in the morning. If the window does not exceed the size of the permitted door and no door exist I say yes. However, I need to read the code. My local code calls for 1hr. So I don't use that section often. Where did the rating come from for the window.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Windows
R309.1 Opening protection.
Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.
If it's a rated door window assembly I don't see why not
R309.1 Opening protection.
Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.
If it's a rated door window assembly I don't see why not
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Windows
MT: thanks for the section!
MT: thanks for the section!
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Windows
It is an interesting question! green I agree, but for the life of me I can't think why someone would want a window in the dinning room to view the garage! :lol:
It is an interesting question! green I agree, but for the life of me I can't think why someone would want a window in the dinning room to view the garage! :lol:
skipharper
Registered User
Re: Windows
The owner has an antique vehicle and I assume he wants to sit and stare at it!! I think Green hit the nail on the head!
The owner has an antique vehicle and I assume he wants to sit and stare at it!! I think Green hit the nail on the head!
Re: Windows
Skip,
In Las Vegas, Dan Tanna parked his convertable in his living room, when I was a kid that was pretty cool. That's TV for ya!
Would the glass have to be pyrex type glass or would tempered glass hold out for 20 mins. before shattering because of heat from a fire?
Skip,
In Las Vegas, Dan Tanna parked his convertable in his living room, when I was a kid that was pretty cool. That's TV for ya!
Would the glass have to be pyrex type glass or would tempered glass hold out for 20 mins. before shattering because of heat from a fire?
FredK
Gold Member
Re: Windows
Might be cheaper to find a rated roll down assembly.
Might be cheaper to find a rated roll down assembly.
jshoe
Member
Re: Windows
Someone who is more familiar with the standards and/or astm testing methods for such products will have to vaerify this, but i think there is a difference in the way wall assemblies, doors and window units are tested. i think the maybe the doors and walls must withstand some type of hose-stream test whereas the window would not. if this is indeed true, then the window is not the same as the afore mentioned assemblies, and is in fact, inferior. subjecting a piece of glass to the flames then hitting it with a hose will, if logic serves me, have catastrophic results. i think i would be careful about approving the window assembly in your scenario.
Hopefully, i'm not full of crap.
Cheers...
Someone who is more familiar with the standards and/or astm testing methods for such products will have to vaerify this, but i think there is a difference in the way wall assemblies, doors and window units are tested. i think the maybe the doors and walls must withstand some type of hose-stream test whereas the window would not. if this is indeed true, then the window is not the same as the afore mentioned assemblies, and is in fact, inferior. subjecting a piece of glass to the flames then hitting it with a hose will, if logic serves me, have catastrophic results. i think i would be careful about approving the window assembly in your scenario.
Hopefully, i'm not full of crap.
Cheers...
Daddy-0-
Moderator
Re: Windows
The window is so the wife can "watch" over the man cave. :lol:
I would think that the window would have to be inoperable to comply.
The window is so the wife can "watch" over the man cave. :lol:
I would think that the window would have to be inoperable to comply.
Re: Windows
Other openingsbetween the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.
How can you allow a window if the code says that other openings shall be equiped with a door?
Other openingsbetween the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.
How can you allow a window if the code says that other openings shall be equiped with a door?
JBI
Registered User
Re: Windows
Have him install a surveillance camera and connect it to his TV set.
Have him install a surveillance camera and connect it to his TV set.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Re: Windows
I understand the code does not mention windows, but it does prohibit them either. There are rated doors with windows in them
I would make the judgement call that if the window is non-operable and has a 20 minute fire rating then it meets the INTENT of the code.
I understand the code does not mention windows, but it does prohibit them either. There are rated doors with windows in them
I would make the judgement call that if the window is non-operable and has a 20 minute fire rating then it meets the INTENT of the code.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Windows
I don't have my books at home, so I believe this is a judgement call! But, a window either fixed or operable is still an opening! Look at the section in the IBC regarding fire separation of building. Opening is not defined in the code, but is used in a manner that we can apply common sense to its meaning.
I don't have my books at home, so I believe this is a judgement call! But, a window either fixed or operable is still an opening! Look at the section in the IBC regarding fire separation of building. Opening is not defined in the code, but is used in a manner that we can apply common sense to its meaning.
Re: Windows
What code section would you used to deny this installation? I can't find the common sense section :lol:
A glass wall or partial wall is not an opening so wouldn’t have to meet the requirements for openings between the garage and residence. The glass has to be an equivalent fire-rated has ½ inch sheetrock, and meet the energy exterior envelope requirements.
What code section would you used to deny this installation? I can't find the common sense section :lol:
A glass wall or partial wall is not an opening so wouldn’t have to meet the requirements for openings between the garage and residence. The glass has to be an equivalent fire-rated has ½ inch sheetrock, and meet the energy exterior envelope requirements.
Re: Windows
Ok, I want to play; and I'm on Mule's side.
It's a window and if "openable" it is prohibited by R309.1 "Openings from a private garage directly into a room use for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1 3/8" in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 1 3/8" thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors."
R309.1 states that all allowed openings between a private garage and a residence shall be equipped with doors.
If the window is "not openable" it is prohibited by R309.2 Separation required. "The garage shall be seperated from the residence and it's attic area by not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board applied to the garage side."
Other than the openings allowed and regulated by R309.1 (doors); all garage walls shall be seperated from the residence by not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board.
No windows!
Uncle Bob
Ok, I want to play; and I'm on Mule's side.
It's a window and if "openable" it is prohibited by R309.1 "Openings from a private garage directly into a room use for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1 3/8" in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 1 3/8" thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors."
R309.1 states that all allowed openings between a private garage and a residence shall be equipped with doors.
If the window is "not openable" it is prohibited by R309.2 Separation required. "The garage shall be seperated from the residence and it's attic area by not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board applied to the garage side."
Other than the openings allowed and regulated by R309.1 (doors); all garage walls shall be seperated from the residence by not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board.
No windows!
Uncle Bob
Re: Windows
It appears that you don't like the ; or equivalent portion if its a glass wall and meets all the requirements for separation, cite a code section that wouldn't allow this type of wall assembly.
To just cite the section that says 1/2 inch drywall, it appears that you wouldn't allow 5/8 inch, 1inch drywall, CMU walls etc. What rules are you playing by?
It appears that you don't like the ; or equivalent portion
if its a glass wall and meets all the requirements for separation, cite a code section that wouldn't allow this type of wall assembly.To just cite the section that says 1/2 inch drywall, it appears that you wouldn't allow 5/8 inch, 1inch drywall, CMU walls etc. What rules are you playing by?
Re: Windows
Kilitact,
"It appears that you don't like the ; or equivalent portion "
You haven't read the code or you wouldn't make that statement; there is no "equivalent" exception in "R309.2 Separation required."
"To just cite the section that says 1/2 inch drywall, it appears that you wouldn't allow 5/8 inch, 1inch drywall"
Re-read my quote from the code "by NOT LESS THAN 1/2-inch gypsum board applied to the garage side."
There are no exceptions allowing any other materials; written in R309.1 and/or R309.2.
Your inference that I "dislike" and/or " wouldn't allow"; assumes that I have a personal interest; which I don't. In fact, I liked the older homes I lived in that had a single pane window in the door between the garage and the dwelling.
If you are refering to R104.11; that is the responsibility of the Building Official; which he/she should take seriously; and research any and all alternative materials and possible hazards that might be associated with that material's use; and, not accept that material because it meets just one of the purposes of the code requirement.
Do you have a copy of the 2006 IRC; or do you just sit back and take cheap shots at code questions and answers?
If you have an opposing opinion or facts; post them. The personal crap is not neccesary. I, like George Roberts am trying to be on my best behavior. Help me out, ok?
My answers were based on the code requirements that I quoted; not my personal opinion or preferences.
Uncle Bob
Kilitact,
"It appears that you don't like the ; or equivalent portion "
You haven't read the code or you wouldn't make that statement; there is no "equivalent" exception in "R309.2 Separation required."
"To just cite the section that says 1/2 inch drywall, it appears that you wouldn't allow 5/8 inch, 1inch drywall"
Re-read my quote from the code "by NOT LESS THAN 1/2-inch gypsum board applied to the garage side."
There are no exceptions allowing any other materials; written in R309.1 and/or R309.2.
Your inference that I "dislike" and/or " wouldn't allow"; assumes that I have a personal interest; which I don't. In fact, I liked the older homes I lived in that had a single pane window in the door between the garage and the dwelling.
If you are refering to R104.11; that is the responsibility of the Building Official; which he/she should take seriously; and research any and all alternative materials and possible hazards that might be associated with that material's use; and, not accept that material because it meets just one of the purposes of the code requirement.
Do you have a copy of the 2006 IRC; or do you just sit back and take cheap shots at code questions and answers?
If you have an opposing opinion or facts; post them. The personal crap is not neccesary. I, like George Roberts am trying to be on my best behavior. Help me out, ok?
My answers were based on the code requirements that I quoted; not my personal opinion or preferences.
Uncle Bob