Would you allow this interlock kit?

[jar546]

http://www.interlockkit.com/

There are a lot of generators out there.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[TheCommish]

yes I would

 

[steveray]

Have approved similar.....is it listed?

 

[jwelectric]

Look at FTCN of the UL White Book and then answer

 

[Rider Rick]

Look at FTCN of the UL White Book and then answer

Without looking at the UL White Book I say yes.

Why not?

 

[cda]

Lazy person installs breaker, but not sliding plate, or removes the plate, because to much hassle to loosen and move when needed?????

 

[north star]

= = =

On the Information Sheet listed as "How Do I Connect My Generator

Breaker To My Generator", ..this particular sheet says to hardwire a

generator convenience outlet near the [ portable ] generator and to

your electrical panel using NM type wire.

Wouldn't this violate Article 334.12(B)(4), `08 NEC [ i.e. - wet or

damp locations ]?......Refer to the link:

Generator InterLock Kit - How do I connect my Generator Breaker to my Generator



& & &

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

Yep, as long as it's listed and meets NEC requirements. It's better than some of the scary rigs I've seen for sure!

BS

 

[jwelectric]

Without looking at the UL White Book I say yes. Why not?

FTCN.GuideInfo - Engine Generators for Portable Use

GENERAL

This category covers internal-combustion-engine-driven generators rated 15 kW or less, 250 V or less, which are provided only with receptacle outlets for the ac output circuits. The generators may incorporate alternating- or direct-current generator sections for supplying energy to battery-charging circuits.

When a portable generator is used to supply a building or structure wiring system:

1. The generator is considered a separately derived system in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC).

2. The generator is intended to be connected through permanently installed Listed transfer equipment that switches all conductors other than the equipment grounding conductor.

3. The frame of a Listed generator is connected to the equipment-grounding conductor and the grounded (neutral) conductor of the generator. When properly connected to a premises or structure wiring system, the portable generator will be connected to the premises or structure grounding electrode for its ground reference.

4. Portable generators used other than to power building or structure wiring systems are intended to be connected to ground if required by the NEC.

 

[gfretwell]

A generator can be connected as an SDS or a non-SDS but you need to coordinate whether you switch the neutral and whether the neutral is bonded in the generator. I doubt most home owners understand enough about grounding to do it properly.

If this is using the interlock, this is not an SDS and the bond in the generator, if present, needs to be lifted.

 

[chris kennedy]

1. The generator is considered a separately derived system in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC).

A direct conflict with the NEC definition of SDS wouldn't you say Mike?

 

[jwelectric]

A direct conflict with the NEC definition of SDS wouldn't you say Mike?

No Sir I don't believe that there is a conflict at all with the NEC. I believe that the NEC is clear that a self contained generator set is a SDS And must be connected with a transfer switch that switches the neutral.

Although many will argue a self contained generator is a temperory installation and must meet 590

 

[chris kennedy]

I believe that the NEC is clear that a self contained generator set is a SDS And must be connected with a transfer switch that switches the neutral.

Could you reference the art that states this please?

 

[jwelectric]

Could you reference the art that states this please?

By UL's Listing of the stand alone generators and 250.34 of the NEC250.34 Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators.

(A) Portable Generators. The frame of a portable generator shall not be required to be connected to a grounding electrode as defined in 250.52 for a system supplied by the generator under the following conditions: See related ROP

(1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and

(2) The normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are connected to the generator frame.

According to 250.34(A), the frame of a portable generator is not required to be connected to earth (ground rod, water pipe, etc.) if the generator has receptacles mounted on the generator panel and the receptacles have equipment grounding terminals bonded to the generator frame. Portable describes equipment that is easily carried by personnel from one location to another. Mobile describes equipment, such as vehicle-mounted generators, that is capable of being moved on wheels or rollers.

(B) Vehicle-Mounted Generators. The frame of a vehicle shall not be required to be connected to a grounding electrode as defined in 250.52 for a system supplied by a generator located on this vehicle under the following conditions: See related ROP

(1) The frame of the generator is bonded to the vehicle frame, and

(2) The generator supplies only equipment located on the vehicle or cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the vehicle, or both equipment located on the vehicle and cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the vehicle or on the generator, and

(3) The normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are connected to the generator frame.

Vehicle-mounted generators that provide a neutral conductor and are installed as separately derived systems supplying equipment and receptacles on the vehicle are required to have the neutral conductor bonded to the generator frame and to the vehicle frame. The non–current-carrying parts of the equipment must be bonded to the generator frame.

© Grounded Conductor Bonding. A system conductor that is required to be grounded by 250.26 shall be connected to the generator frame where the generator is a component of a separately derived system. See related ROP

Informational Note: For grounding portable generators supplying fixed wiring systems, see 250.30.

Pay close attention to the Informational Note included in this section.

250.30 addresses a SDS.

Yes I know that the Note is not enforceable but the section referenced is very much enforceable

 

[chris kennedy]

Pay close attention to the Informational Note included in this section.

250.30 addresses a SDS.

Yes I know that the Note is not enforceable but the section referenced is very much enforceable

And what does the Informational Note 1 under 250.30 in the 2011 say?

I believe that the NEC is clear that a self contained generator set is a SDS And must be connected with a transfer switch that switches the neutral.

Just fail to see how you can make the above statement.

 

[gfretwell]

How about 250.35(B)?

 

[jwilly3879]

This interlock kit works and does prevent feeding back on the utility lines. It is simple to use and doesn't require anything other than shutting off the main, sliding the plate up (no screws to loosen) and turning on the generator breaker. While it might not comply with the NEC it does lock out the main when the generator breaker is on. Its far better than the temporary setups I have seen where the generator is connected through the dryer receptacle.

 

[jwelectric]

And what does the Informational Note 1 under 250.30 in the 2011 say?

Informational Note No. 1: An alternate ac power source, such as an on-site generator, is not a separately derived system if the grounded conductor is solidly interconnected to a service-supplied system grounded conductor. An example of such a situation is where alternate source transfer equipment does not include a switching action in the grounded conductor and allows it to remain solidly connected to the service-supplied grounded conductor when the alternate source is operational and supplying the load served.But I think we are talking about generators outlined in 250.34 are we not? This section says nothing about a portable generator.

Just fail to see how you can make the above statement.

Just repeating what I have been told at these IAIE meeting I attend

 

[jwelectric]

How about 250.35(B)?

(B) Nonseparately Derived System. If the generator is installed as a nonseparately derived system, and overcurrent protection is not integral with the generator assembly, a supply-side bonding jumper shall be installed between the generator equipment grounding terminal and the equipment grounding terminal, bar, or bus of the disconnecting mean(s). It shall be sized in accordance with 250.102© based on the size of the conductors supplied by the generator. I just don't see this being done with those type of transfer switches, do you?

 

[ICE]

702.6 Transfer Equipment. Transfer equipment shall be suitable for the intended use and designed and installed so as

to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of normal and alternate sources of supply in any operation of the transfer equipment.

Transfer equipment and electric power production systems installed to permit operation in parallel with the normal source shall meet the requirements of Article 705.

Transfer equipment, located on the load side of branch circuit protection, shall be permitted to contain supplemental overcurrent protection having an interrupting rating

sufficient for the available fault current that the generator can deliver. The supplementary overcurrent protection devices shall be part of a listed transfer equipment.

Transfer equipment shall be required for all standby systems subject to the provisions of this article and for which an electric utility supply is either the normal or standby source.

Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only

qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnecting means or by disconnection of the normal

supply conductors.

The operation is fool proof and therefor renders a housewife to be a "qualified person" for the purposes of maintenance and supervision and in reality, the qualified person is only required to service the installation.

Chances are good that no qualified service person will be involved, ever.

What determines who is a qualified person other than the complexity of the equipment. What could the housewife do wrong with this equipment and what would be the adverse outcome? Well for starters, she could forget to shut off all of the breakers. (Both times)

"isolated by a lockable disconnecting means" This presents a talking point. Is the fact that both systems can't be on at the same time reason enough to think that the interlock is a "lockable disconnecting means"?

My advice to those that would use this kit is, "Don't hurt yourself".

 

[jwelectric]

What determines who is a qualified person

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2009, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements.

I don't think that a housewife would fit in here anywhere

 

[ICE]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2009, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements.

I don't think that a housewife would fit in here anywhere

You haven't met mine.

But on a serious note, it only requires a qualified person to do work on the installation. Anybody can operate it.

There is no certification for a qualified person. It could very well be that reading the installation instructions is all the training that is required.

 

[jwelectric]

You haven't met mine.But on a serious note, it only requires a qualified person to do work on the installation. Anybody can operate it.

There is no certification for a qualified person. It could very well be that reading the installation instructions is all the training that is required.

Have you lost your mind??????????????Are you an inspector????????????

Read the definition of qualified person as outlined in all NFPA documents. It goes a lot deeper than reading some instruction sheet.

I read on this forum where you pick apart code sections trying to find a reason to turn someone down for something but when it comes to these small generators the code goes out the window and you try to find some way to circumvent the same codes you enforce.

What is going on here????????????

Is this site a joke or something?

 

[jar546]

This was not the first or even second time that an inspector was attempting to make a homeowner a "qualified" individual to bypass a code requirement with an exception intended for truly qualified individuals such as maintenance personnel.