Converting Four Unit Apartment Building to Condos

[jar546]

An apartment building would be R2 use and occupancy.
A condo building would be an R2 use and occupancy.
Therefore if someone wanted to legally convert the apartment building into condos, this would not involve the building department unless they were going to pull a permit.
Does that sound correct?

 

[classicT]

Depends on how the local jurisdiction processes condominium plats.

In my experience, it is run through the planning/zoning department. As the building dept, we were sent a copy of the plat document for an opportunity to review or add conditions (i.e. a permit is required). If we saw a reason for a permit to be required, then we would add that as a condition of approval for the plat.

It is possible that there could be some issues with FSD, depending on how the lot lines are laid out with relation to exterior walls. The 4-unit apartment could even be subject to the IRC instead of the IBC depending on the configuration (could be a townhome).

All-in-all, it depends on a number of variables.

 

[steveray]

If they install a property line yes...

 

[jar546]

If they install a property line yes...

That would be impossible so it will remain the same lot with parcels inside the structure. If they were townhouses then that would be different.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

An apartment building would be R2 use and occupancy.
A condo building would be an R2 use and occupancy.
Therefore if someone wanted to legally convert the apartment building into condos, this would not involve the building department unless they were going to pull a permit.
Does that sound correct?

Yes.

"Condominium" is a form of ownership. It doesn't affect design or construction of the building(s).

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

That would be impossible so it will remain the same lot with parcels inside the structure. If they were townhouses then that would be different.

While working as an architect I was involved in a number of condominium projects, including preparing the condominium declaration drawings. Typically, there are no "plats," "parcels," "lots," or property lines. Typically (except for the type of planned unit development where each unit is a free-standing dwelling with maybe a 10-foot strip of lawn around it, and all the rest of the overall parcel belongs to the association) the unit owner owns the interior of the unit (defined by the declaration drawings) and the association owns the structural walls and the surrounding land. In the condo I owned for several years, even the exterior decks were owned by the association. The decks and the front and rear yards were declared as "limited common elements," which is lawyer-speak for saying they were things that were owned in common (by the association) but use was limited to the specific unit owner.

The extent of what the unit owner owns was not (and IMHO cannot be) in any way considered to be a "parcel." It's a "unit."

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

From my states statutes pertaining to condo declaration documents:

Declaration. Covenants, easements and liens on conveyances limited. (a) The declaration shall contain the following information:


(1) The name by which the condominium is to be identified, which name shall include the word “condominium” or be followed by the words, “a condominium”;


(2) A description of the land on which the buildings and improvements are, or are to be, located together with the title of and reference to a survey of such land prepared and certified substantially correct by a licensed surveyor or engineer and filed prior to or simultaneously with such declaration and the plans for the buildings and improvements constructed or to be constructed thereon, as more fully described in section 47-71;


(3) A description of each building constructed or to be constructed on the condominium property, or appurtenant to such property, stating for each such building the number of stories and basements, the number of units and the principal materials of which it is, or is to be, constructed;


(4) A general description of each unit, including its location, approximate area, and any other data necessary for its proper identification;


(5) A description of the common elements, together with a designation of those portions of the common elements that are limited common elements and the unit or units to which the use of each is restricted; or the method of determining to which unit or units the use of each is restricted;


(6) The percentage of undivided interest in the common elements appertaining to each unit and its owner and the method of apportioning the same, as provided in section 47-74. The total percentage of the undivided interests of all of the units shall equal one hundred;

There more, but the rest relates to finances and bookkeeping. Then there are two other sections:

Deeds of units. Leases. Conveyance of title from declarant to any unit or leasehold other than to a successor declarant, or other than by mortgage, judicial proceedings, foreclosure, or proceedings or deed in lieu of foreclosure, shall be by warranty deed or lease, conveying to the purchaser of such unit an indefeasible title in fee simple absolute or leasehold estate to the unit and to the percentage of undivided interest in the common elements appertaining to the unit, subject only to covenants, easements and liens pursuant to section 47-70 and shall not reserve to the seller or to any third party any leasehold or reversionary interest in a fee simple condominium. Deeds or leases of units shall include the following particulars:


(a) A description of the land as provided in section 47-71 or the date, title of and reference to the survey describing such land;


(b) The date of the effective declaration, and all effective amendments thereto, and the volume and page of the land records where recorded;


(c) The identification of the unit in the declaration;


(d) Any further details which the grantor and grantee may deem desirable to set forth consistent with the condominium instruments and this chapter.

And

Unit as real property. Each unit, together with its undivided interest in the common elements, shall for all purposes constitute real property.

And

Boundaries, encroachments and easements. (a) The existing physical boundaries, as defined in the condominium instruments, of any unit or common element constructed or reconstructed in substantial conformity with the condominium plans shall be conclusively presumed to be its boundaries, regardless of the shifting, settlement, or lateral movement of any building and regardless of minor variations between the physical boundaries as described in the declaration or shown on the condominium plan and the existing physical boundaries of any such unit or common element. This presumption applies only to encroachments within the condominium.


(b) If any portion of any common element encroaches on any unit or if any portion of a unit encroaches on any common element, as a result of the duly authorized construction or repair of a building, a valid easement for the encroachment and for the maintenance of the same shall exist so long as the building stands. The purpose of this section is to protect the unit owners, except in cases of wilful and intentional misconduct by them or their agent or employees, and not to relieve the declarant or any contractor, subcontractor, or materialman of any liability which any of them may have by reason of any failure to adhere substantially to the survey maps and plans.


(c) If any part of a condominium is destroyed partially or totally as a result of fire or other casualty or as a result of condemnation or eminent domain proceedings, and then is reconstructed as authorized in this chapter, encroachment of any condominium unit on any common element, due to such reconstruction, shall be permitted, and valid easements for such encroachments and the maintenance of them shall exist so long as the building stands.


(d) Subject to any restrictions and limitations the condominium instruments may specify, the declarant and the association of unit owners shall have a transferable easement over and on the common elements for the purpose of making improvements on the condominium parcel and any additional land pursuant to the provisions of those instruments and of this chapter, and for the purpose of doing all things reasonably necessary and proper in connection therewith.


(e) The declarant and his duly authorized agents, representatives, and employees may maintain sales offices and model units on the condominium parcel if and only if the condominium instruments provide for the same and specify the rights of the declarant with regard to the number, size, location and relocation thereof. Any such sales office or model unit which is not designated a unit by the condominium instruments shall become a common element as soon as the declarant ceases to be a unit owner, and the declarant shall cease to have any rights with regard thereto unless such sales office or model unit is removed forthwith from the condominium parcel in accordance with a right reserved in the condominium instruments to make such removal.


(f) The conveyance or other disposition of a condominium unit shall include and grant, and be subject to, any easement arising under the provisions of this section without specific or particular reference to the easement.

In preparing the condo declaration drawings, there had to be one point of each unit that was a reference benchmark, which was used both for establishing an elevation reference and for locating the unit on the overall site. For each unit, typically the unit owner owned to the inside face of the exterior walls, and any non-bearing interior partitions. The association owned the structure. The declaration drawings had to include an plan outline of the extent of the unit (i.e. a heavy outline of the interiors of structural walls) plus the floor and ceiling elevations for each story (since the unit owner didn't own the floor itself -- that's structure).

 

[jar546]

While working as an architect I was involved in a number of condominium projects, including preparing the condominium declaration drawings. Typically, there are no "plats," "parcels," "lots," or property lines. Typically (except for the type of planned unit development where each unit is a free-standing dwelling with maybe a 10-foot strip of lawn around it, and all the rest of the overall parcel belongs to the association) the unit owner owns the interior of the unit (defined by the declaration drawings) and the association owns the structural walls and the surrounding land. In the condo I owned for several years, even the exterior decks were owned by the association. The decks and the front and rear yards were declared as "limited common elements," which is lawyer-speak for saying they were things that were owned in common (by the association) but use was limited to the specific unit owner.

The extent of what the unit owner owns was not (and IMHO cannot be) in any way considered to be a "parcel." It's a "unit."

Here in Florida, things are similar, but different. There are hundreds of condos in a high-rise that all have their own parcel control number for legal sales and listed separately on the county appraisal system, but there is only one property owned by the HOA. Some HOA's own several high-rises on the same property and each of those high rises account for hundreds of properties, aka condos with their own PCN.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Here in Florida, things are similar, but different. There are hundreds of condos in a high-rise that all have their own parcel control number for legal sales and listed separately on the county appraisal system, but there is only one property owned by the HOA. Some HOA's own several high-rises on the same property and each of those high rises account for hundreds of properties, aka condos with their own PCN.

The assessor may treat the units as "parcels" (in fact, I think the assessor in the town where I'm now working does that), but according to state law and the deeds, they are "units," not "parcels." The end result seems to be the same.

I suppose you could consider the interior outlines of the condo declaration plans as "property lines," but in 45 years I have never heard them referred to as such.

 

[jar546]

The assessor may treat the units as "parcels" (in fact, I think the assessor in the town where I'm now working does that), but according to state law and the deeds, they are "units," not "parcels." The end result seems to be the same.

I suppose you could consider the interior outlines of the condo declaration plans as "property lines," but in 45 years I have never heard them referred to as such.

It is a property that can be sold but it does not have property lines. It has a parcel control number, deed location, and legal description based on its location in the building. This is no different than purchasing a house other than you don't own land but are part owner of the common areas.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

It is a property that can be sold but it does not have property lines. It has a parcel control number, deed location, and legal description based on its location in the building. This is no different than purchasing a house other than you don't own land but are part owner of the common areas.

We agree on the concept. It may be a function of applicable state law. My state's laws refer to condos as "units," not as "parcels." Either way, the units are real proerty that can be bought, sold, and rented, and each unit has a deed and a legal description.