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Disconnect between IBC and SDS

YongMNLad

Sawhorse
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
Hello all,

I would like to get input from others on an issue that I frequently run into. I often am tasked with completing code reviews for buildings used for storage of agricultural products. This involves me reading through multiple Safety Data Sheets to determine the occupancy of the buildings and finding products that may create issues.

My confusion normally comes with Toxic material classification. The IBC appears to have a black and white definition when it comes to Toxic materials. Chapter 2 defines Toxic as; a chemical falling within any of the following:

1. Lethal threshold of orally administered to albino rats (paraphrased for simplification)

2. Lethal threshold of continuous contact with skin of albino rabbits (paraphrased for simplification)

3. A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million, but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

Seems simple enough. Then I read Section 11 of a SDS that reads:

Example 1:
Acute
Inhalation LC50 Rat >1,000 mg/m^3, 8 hours
Oral LD50 Rat 2,840 mg/kg

Example 2:
Oral LD50 = 472 mg/kg (Rat) (IBC oral threshold is 50-500 mg/kg, I did not list above)
Dermal LD50 > 2g/kg (Rat) (note the units and specimen do not match the IBC)
Inhalation LC50 > 2.95 mg/l

Example 3:
Acute Toxicity (Oral LD50): 3,200 mg/kg (rat). May be harmful if swallowed
Acute Toxicity (Dermal LD50): No LD50 data available. May be harmful in contact with skin.
Acute Toxicity Inhalation LC50: 3.05 mg/L/4.5 hour exposure to dust/mist of undiluted material. Harmful if inhaled.

Example 4:
Acute oral toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, female, 1,849 mg/kg
Acute dermal toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, >5,000 mg/kg
Acute inhalation toxicity: For similar material(s): LC50, Rat, 4 Hour, dust/mist, 1.4 mg/l

Example 5:
Ingestion: Oral (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Dermal: Dermal (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Inhalation: Inhalation (LC50 Rat): >2.56 mg/l

Of the 20 materials that I have been looking at for this building, I have flagged these 5 as being toxic by IBC definition.

To add some confusion, here is a product that I did not flag as toxic:
Oral: LD50, rat: 695 mg/kg
Inhalation: LC50, rat: >5.6 mg/kg, 4 hour exposure
Dermal: LD50, rat, >5,000mg/kg (OECD Guideline 402)

Although the LC50 is not greater than 20 mg/l as the IBC requires, I assume this product is non-toxic due to the 4 hour exposure. I have found testing guidelines that somewhat explain a conversion between 1 hour and 4 hour exposure tests. Take the United Nations Part 3 Health Hazards for instance:

“Values for inhalation toxicity are based on 4 hours tests in laboratory animals. When experimental values are taken from tests using a 1 hour exposure, they can be converted to a 4 hour equivalent by dividing the 1 hour value by a factor of 2 for gases and vapours and 4 for dusts and mists.”

Thus I take the LC50 of 5.6 x 4 and get 22.4 which is now considered non-toxic by the IBC definition. The majority of the LC50 values that I see are labeled 4 hour exposure or do not list an exposure time. Because of this (and my x4 calculation) I normally do not flag a material if the LC50 is >5.

I guess my main question is, how are we supposed to accurately classify materials when the IBC does not line up with the SDS. Common “misalignments” include:

Exposure times (1 hr, 4hrs, 4.5 hrs, 8 hrs)
Units (mg/l, mg/m^3, g/l)
Tested specimen (rats, mice, rabbits)

Base on the provided information, would you (enter Ron??) classify these 6 materials as hazardous?

Thanks in advance for your time!
 
Last edited:
I should note that I am typically using the 2012 IBC in non-California states.

Also, a follow-up question. If a material is considered Toxic and the building contains more than 125 pounds (Table 307.1(2)), the building is classified as an H-4 occupancy. 903.2.5 requires Group H occupancies to have automatic sprinkler systems...

If a material is non-combustible but killed a rat when inhaled for 1-4 hours in a test, what is the thought process that an automatic fire suppression reduces the hazard of the material? - I hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to "fight the code", I'm simply asking so I can better understand and explain to my clients when they ask this question.
 
Yep agree, some chemicals are hard to easily classify.

As an ahj I would ask for a report from a third party FPE or similar.

That is my suggestion, have a FPE friend that can help you occasionally, it will help you in the long run.

Plus let me try to remember the software you can get to sometimes help you.
 
Plus let me try to remember the software you can get to sometimes help you.

I did purchase the ICC software when I was reviewing a building with over 200 materials. Not one of the materials were in the software....

edit: found it - HMEX: The Hazardous Material Expert Assistant CD-ROM, Version 6 $260.35

Not only did it not contain 1 material I was looking for, laptops don't even come with a cd drive anymore...
 
Last edited:
It appears we have another case of a molehill becoming a mountain.
So many rules and reg's to keep aligned and many for which expirations don't align with ICC too.
 
I should note that I am typically using the 2012 IBC in non-California states.

Also, a follow-up question. If a material is considered Toxic and the building contains more than 125 pounds (Table 307.1(2)), the building is classified as an H-4 occupancy. 903.2.5 requires Group H occupancies to have automatic sprinkler systems...

If a material is non-combustible but killed a rat when inhaled for 1-4 hours in a test, what is the thought process that an automatic fire suppression reduces the hazard of the material? - I hope this doesn't sound like I'm trying to "fight the code", I'm simply asking so I can better understand and explain to my clients when they ask this question.


Nope all H’s are automatic sprinkler requirement. Fire suppression only, normally, they do other things in some situations
 
I did purchase the ICC software when I was reviewing a building with over 200 materials. Not one of the materials were in the software....

edit: found it - HMEX: The Hazardous Material Expert Assistant CD-ROM, Version 6 $260.35

Not only did it not contain 1 material I was looking for, laptops don't even come with a cd drive anymore...


Ok sorry icc is behind the times


FPE highly suggested, saves some brain cells, and ahj’s love them.
 
I did purchase the ICC software when I was reviewing a building with over 200 materials. Not one of the materials were in the software....

edit: found it - HMEX: The Hazardous Material Expert Assistant CD-ROM, Version 6 $260.35

Not only did it not contain 1 material I was looking for, laptops don't even come with a cd drive anymore...


So were any of your stuff in one of these lists::


https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/IFC2018/APPENDIX-E-HAZARD-CATEGORIES
 
The materials I look at are usually compounds made up of 2-6 chemicals. I checked E102.1 and E102.2 from the link and did not find any matching chemicals.


Ok

I am not good with toxic either. My rat brain just does not compute.

And add compounds to it.
 
Hello all,

I would like to get input from others on an issue that I frequently run into. I often am tasked with completing code reviews for buildings used for storage of agricultural products. This involves me reading through multiple Safety Data Sheets to determine the occupancy of the buildings and finding products that may create issues.

My confusion normally comes with Toxic material classification. The IBC appears to have a black and white definition when it comes to Toxic materials. Chapter 2 defines Toxic as; a chemical falling within any of the following:

1. Lethal threshold of orally administered to albino rats (paraphrased for simplification)

2. Lethal threshold of continuous contact with skin of albino rabbits (paraphrased for simplification)

3. A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million, but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

Seems simple enough. Then I read Section 11 of a SDS that reads:

Example 1:
Acute
Inhalation LC50 Rat >1,000 mg/m^3, 8 hours
Oral LD50 Rat 2,840 mg/kg

Example 2:
Oral LD50 = 472 mg/kg (Rat) (IBC oral threshold is 50-500 mg/kg, I did not list above)
Dermal LD50 > 2g/kg (Rat) (note the units and specimen do not match the IBC)
Inhalation LC50 > 2.95 mg/l

Example 3:
Acute Toxicity (Oral LD50): 3,200 mg/kg (rat). May be harmful if swallowed
Acute Toxicity (Dermal LD50): No LD50 data available. May be harmful in contact with skin.
Acute Toxicity Inhalation LC50: 3.05 mg/L/4.5 hour exposure to dust/mist of undiluted material. Harmful if inhaled.

Example 4:
Acute oral toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, female, 1,849 mg/kg
Acute dermal toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, >5,000 mg/kg
Acute inhalation toxicity: For similar material(s): LC50, Rat, 4 Hour, dust/mist, 1.4 mg/l

Example 5:
Ingestion: Oral (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Dermal: Dermal (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Inhalation: Inhalation (LC50 Rat): >2.56 mg/l

Of the 20 materials that I have been looking at for this building, I have flagged these 5 as being toxic by IBC definition.

To add some confusion, here is a product that I did not flag as toxic:
Oral: LD50, rat: 695 mg/kg
Inhalation: LC50, rat: >5.6 mg/kg, 4 hour exposure
Dermal: LD50, rat, >5,000mg/kg (OECD Guideline 402)

Although the LC50 is not greater than 20 mg/l as the IBC requires, I assume this product is non-toxic due to the 4 hour exposure. I have found testing guidelines that somewhat explain a conversion between 1 hour and 4 hour exposure tests. Take the United Nations Part 3 Health Hazards for instance:

“Values for inhalation toxicity are based on 4 hours tests in laboratory animals. When experimental values are taken from tests using a 1 hour exposure, they can be converted to a 4 hour equivalent by dividing the 1 hour value by a factor of 2 for gases and vapours and 4 for dusts and mists.”

Thus I take the LC50 of 5.6 x 4 and get 22.4 which is now considered non-toxic by the IBC definition. The majority of the LC50 values that I see are labeled 4 hour exposure or do not list an exposure time. Because of this (and my x4 calculation) I normally do not flag a material if the LC50 is >5.

I guess my main question is, how are we supposed to accurately classify materials when the IBC does not line up with the SDS. Common “misalignments” include:

Exposure times (1 hr, 4hrs, 4.5 hrs, 8 hrs)
Units (mg/l, mg/m^3, g/l)
Tested specimen (rats, mice, rabbits)

Base on the provided information, would you (enter Ron??) classify these 6 materials as hazardous?

Thanks in advance for your time!



If you post your question here, there is a great haz mat person on the site It may take a little to get back to you:::




http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=184&page=1
 
@ ~ @ ~ @

YongMNLad,

Recommendation # 1: Call ICC and request either a Verbal Technical

Opinion, or Written Technical Opinion on your questions.......Costs
may be involved.

Recommendation # 2: Call ICC and request the e-mail address

to one of their instructors, ...a Mr. Terrell Stripling......He is one
of their regular instructors and an FPE.

Recommendation # 3: Send a Private Message ( PM ) to one

of the Forum members, ...***hazmatpoobah**......He visits here
infrequently, so it may take some time.

Recommendation # 4: Visit another Forum called Eng-Tips.com.

They have a variety of engineers and other professionals that
frequent that Forum......This Forum is somewhat challenging
to navigate until you have done it a few times, but it is FREE.
Just create your own Username & Password.

Recommendation # 5: Continue searching the internet for

information........The answers that you are seeking ARE out
there !


Request # 1: Whenever you have found the definitive
answers, please come back on here and tell us !

Request # 2: Would you also consider becoming a Paid
Subscription member on this Forum [ i.e. - a Sawhorse ] ?
A 2 year subscription is only $60.00......Thanks for your
consideration. :D


@ ~ @ ~ @
 
CDA and north star,
Thank-you for the recommendations, I will look into all of them.

Request # 1: Whenever you have found the definitive
answers, please come back on here and tell us !

Request # 2: Would you also consider becoming a Paid
Subscription member on this Forum [ i.e. - a Sawhorse ] ?
A 2 year subscription is only $60.00......Thanks for your consideration.

I will most definitely include an update when I have answers.

I have been a sawhorse for a couple years now, not sure why it says member on my profile. In fact, I emailed Jar about it a couple of weeks ago... Well worth the money!!
 
CDA and north star,
Thank-you for the recommendations, I will look into all of them.



I will most definitely include an update when I have answers.

I have been a sawhorse for a couple years now, not sure why it says member on my profile. In fact, I emailed Jar about it a couple of weeks ago... Well worth the money!!

If you click on the person picture top right/ your profile

Go to account upgrades

And go to the bottom it will tell you if you are an up to date paid sawhorse and when it expires
 
Will look at the ifc commentary to see if it is any help.

Have you checked that?
 
TOXIC. A chemical falling within any of the following categories:

  1. 1.A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of more than 50 milligrams per kilogram, but not more than 500 milligrams per kilogram of body weight when administered orally to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

  2. 2.A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of more than 200 milligrams per kilogram but not more than 1,000 milligrams per kilogram of body weight when administered by continuous contact for 24 hours (or less if death occurs within 24 hours) with the bare skin of albino rabbits weighing between 2 and 3 kilograms each.

  3. 3.A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.




    HIGHLY TOXIC. A material which produces a lethal dose or lethal concentration which falls within any of the following categories:
    1. 1.A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of 50 milligrams or less per kilogram of body weight when administered orally to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

    2. 2.A chemical that has a median lethal dose (LD50) of 200 milligrams or less per kilogram of body weight when administered by continuous contact for 24 hours (or less if death occurs within 24 hours) with the bare skin of albino rabbits weighing between 2 and 3 kilograms each.

    3. 3.A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of 200 parts per million by volume or less of gas or vapor, or 2 milligrams per liter or less of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for one hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.
    Mixtures of these materials with ordinary materials, such as water, might not warrant classification as highly toxic. While this system is basically simple in application, any hazard evaluation that is required for the precise categorization of this type of material shall be performed by experienced, technically competent persons.
 
Example 1:
Acute
Inhalation LC50 Rat >1,000 mg/m^3, 8 hours
Oral LD50 Rat 2,840 mg/kg


Does not look like it meets toxic?

Greater than three hours?
 
Last edited:
A good maybe toxic

Hits the 50-500


Example 2:
Oral LD50 = 472 mg/kg (Rat) (IBC oral threshold is 50-500 mg/kg, I did not list above)
Dermal LD50 > 2g/kg (Rat) (note the units and specimen do not match the IBC)
Inhalation LC50 > 2.95 mg/l
 
59A900D6-5630-41DF-80FD-92618423FD37.jpeg 96DBD760-9BCE-453B-B3D4-99CE42A9657C.jpeg 3A68228B-6BB5-4DFB-8035-4C6E1BFC4783.jpeg
CDA and north star,
Thank-you for the recommendations, I will look into all of them.



I will most definitely include an update when I have answers.

I have been a sawhorse for a couple years now, not sure why it says member on my profile. In fact, I emailed Jar about it a couple of weeks ago... Well worth the money!!


Commentary does not help much, still have to look at the toxic chapter
 
Hello all,

I would like to get input from others on an issue that I frequently run into. I often am tasked with completing code reviews for buildings used for storage of agricultural products. This involves me reading through multiple Safety Data Sheets to determine the occupancy of the buildings and finding products that may create issues.

My confusion normally comes with Toxic material classification. The IBC appears to have a black and white definition when it comes to Toxic materials. Chapter 2 defines Toxic as; a chemical falling within any of the following:

1. Lethal threshold of orally administered to albino rats (paraphrased for simplification)

2. Lethal threshold of continuous contact with skin of albino rabbits (paraphrased for simplification)

3. A chemical that has a median lethal concentration (LC50) in air of more than 200 parts per million, but not more than 2,000 parts per million by volume of gas or vapor, or more than 2 milligrams per liter but not more than 20 milligrams per liter of mist, fume or dust, when administered by continuous inhalation for 1 hour (or less if death occurs within 1 hour) to albino rats weighing between 200 and 300 grams each.

Seems simple enough. Then I read Section 11 of a SDS that reads:

Example 1:
Acute
Inhalation LC50 Rat >1,000 mg/m^3, 8 hours
Oral LD50 Rat 2,840 mg/kg

Example 2:
Oral LD50 = 472 mg/kg (Rat) (IBC oral threshold is 50-500 mg/kg, I did not list above)
Dermal LD50 > 2g/kg (Rat) (note the units and specimen do not match the IBC)
Inhalation LC50 > 2.95 mg/l

Example 3:
Acute Toxicity (Oral LD50): 3,200 mg/kg (rat). May be harmful if swallowed
Acute Toxicity (Dermal LD50): No LD50 data available. May be harmful in contact with skin.
Acute Toxicity Inhalation LC50: 3.05 mg/L/4.5 hour exposure to dust/mist of undiluted material. Harmful if inhaled.

Example 4:
Acute oral toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, female, 1,849 mg/kg
Acute dermal toxicity: For similar material(s): LD50, Rat, >5,000 mg/kg
Acute inhalation toxicity: For similar material(s): LC50, Rat, 4 Hour, dust/mist, 1.4 mg/l

Example 5:
Ingestion: Oral (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Dermal: Dermal (LD50 Rat): >5000 mg/kg body weight
Inhalation: Inhalation (LC50 Rat): >2.56 mg/l

Of the 20 materials that I have been looking at for this building, I have flagged these 5 as being toxic by IBC definition.

To add some confusion, here is a product that I did not flag as toxic:
Oral: LD50, rat: 695 mg/kg
Inhalation: LC50, rat: >5.6 mg/kg, 4 hour exposure
Dermal: LD50, rat, >5,000mg/kg (OECD Guideline 402)

Although the LC50 is not greater than 20 mg/l as the IBC requires, I assume this product is non-toxic due to the 4 hour exposure. I have found testing guidelines that somewhat explain a conversion between 1 hour and 4 hour exposure tests. Take the United Nations Part 3 Health Hazards for instance:

“Values for inhalation toxicity are based on 4 hours tests in laboratory animals. When experimental values are taken from tests using a 1 hour exposure, they can be converted to a 4 hour equivalent by dividing the 1 hour value by a factor of 2 for gases and vapours and 4 for dusts and mists.”

Thus I take the LC50 of 5.6 x 4 and get 22.4 which is now considered non-toxic by the IBC definition. The majority of the LC50 values that I see are labeled 4 hour exposure or do not list an exposure time. Because of this (and my x4 calculation) I normally do not flag a material if the LC50 is >5.

I guess my main question is, how are we supposed to accurately classify materials when the IBC does not line up with the SDS. Common “misalignments” include:

Exposure times (1 hr, 4hrs, 4.5 hrs, 8 hrs)
Units (mg/l, mg/m^3, g/l)
Tested specimen (rats, mice, rabbits)

Base on the provided information, would you (enter Ron??) classify these 6 materials as hazardous?

Thanks in advance for your time!

And I guess you use 5003.11 IFC 2015, when you can
 
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