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Industrial Bitcoin Mining Facilities?

jpranch

jpranch

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,976
Location
Gillette Wyoming
Hey folks, I have been following the Bitcoin mining for some time now so I'm familiar with it. I have also inspected and done plan review on large data centers. So again familiar with it. But it is my understanding that the latest technology for the servers used for Bitcoin Mining produce a lot more heat that conventional servers? To give you an idea of the size and scope of what I'm looking at the proposal is for three, 3,000 amp electrical services for the servers. Yep, that's right. 9,000 amps in total. Have any of you had first hand experience with this? I would also appreciate any advise so I can get it right the first time. As always I appreciate the incredible talent on this forum!
 
So super air conditioned, like in a cell switching room??

Fire sprinklers or clean agent or none?

I cannot talk to amps
 
This has become absurd, we are penalizing people with sealed-up homes that rot-out, solar panels on roofs that cost more than homes without them, exploding electric cars given free access to our overcrowded toll roads, now bitcoin mining is consuming more energy than we could ever save with our codes and regulations.

New York Times said:
SAN FRANCISCO — Creating a new Bitcoin requires electricity. A lot of it.

In the virtual currency world this creation process is called “mining.” There is no physical digging, since Bitcoins are purely digital. But the computer power needed to create each digital token consumes at least as much electricity as the average American household burns through in two years, according to figures from Morgan Stanley and Alex de Vries, an economist who tracks energy use in the industry.

The total network of computers plugged into the Bitcoin network consumes as much energy each day as some medium-size countries — which country depends on whose estimates you believe. And the network supporting Ethereum, the second-most valuable virtual currency, gobbles up another country’s worth of electricity each day.

The energy consumption of these systems has risen as the prices of virtual currencies have skyrocketed, leading to a vigorous debate among Bitcoin and Ethereum enthusiasts about burning so much electric. ¹
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¹ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/21/technology/bitcoin-mining-energy-consumption.html
 
Thanks Conarb!....That's awesome....The amount of time, money, and energy spent to make money not actually "producing" anything beneficial to the world amazes me yet again...
 
Jim,
What is the concern? I can't imagine the servers are really any different technology. Maybe just higher density of equipment or larger would lead to more heat.None of that is really a "code" concern that I can think of....?
 
steveray said:
Jim,
What is the concern? I can't imagine the servers are really any different technology. Maybe just higher density of equipment or larger would lead to more heat.None of that is really a "code" concern that I can think of....?
Click to expand...

Concern? You guys are mandating that we have to build energy efficient homes and green homes to "save the planet", in California Jesuit Governor Brown wants you to mandate net zero homes while we are heating the planet mining bitcoin which is soon going to be consuming more energy than our homes and businesses. If you want an alternative currency okay, but get rid of the codes mandating saving energy.
 
Thanks for the replies. I have been insanely busy since I posted this. As best as I can figure this will be a business occupancy and fire suppression would not be required unless the building is 55 feet or greater in height. Of course the electrical service would have to be designed by an electrical engineer as well as a mechanical engineer for the HVAC system. As far as these type occupancies being energy pigs the codes as far as I know do not address that. I guess the right or wrong of it would be up to the elected officials to discuss. Bottom line for me: I don't have a dog in that fight. Any additional thoughts or suggestions very welcome.
 
Lucky you are not in CA or our Green code might have something to say about all that energy consumed.
I believe quite a bit of heat will be generated, if you can reclaim it you might be ahead of the game. How do you plan to cool the beast?
 
jpranch said:
Thanks for the replies. I have been insanely busy since I posted this. As best as I can figure this will be a business occupancy and fire suppression would not be required unless the building is 55 feet or greater in height. Of course the electrical service would have to be designed by an electrical engineer as well as a mechanical engineer for the HVAC system. As far as these type occupancies being energy pigs the codes as far as I know do not address that. I guess the right or wrong of it would be up to the elected officials to discuss. Bottom line for me: I don't have a dog in that fight. Any additional thoughts or suggestions very welcome.
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More than likely you will either get a clean agent system or a mix clean and fire sprinkler
 
Understood. Computer servers and water based systems don't really do well together. I do not see in the IBC or IFC that fire suppression would be required just because of the number of servers and the electrical size unless I have missed something. The other interesting thing is that this operation is only going to run for 6 to 12 months as proposed. This presents another challenge for our city. We are the electrical utility. So if the investment in the supporting infrastructure takes 3 to 5 years to recoup through utility rates and the proposed project is only going to run for 6 to 12 months the city will be out a lot of money. I would expect that another customer needing that amount of power at that specific location would not come along every day.
 
ADAguy said:
Lucky you are not in CA or our Green code might have something to say about all that energy consumed.
I believe quite a bit of heat will be generated, if you can reclaim it you might be ahead of the game. How do you plan to cool the beast?
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That remains to be seen. Been doing some research on self-contained super cooling systems for the servers. Beyond that a dedicated mechanical engineer design is an absolute requirement.
 
jpranch said:
...... the proposed project is only going to run for 6 to 12 months the city will be out a lot of money. I would expect that another customer needing that amount of power at that specific location would not come along every day.
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Why on earth would anybody build a facility that was only going to run for 6 to 12 months, they must have future plans.
 
steveray said:
Because they can steal a tremendous amount of money in that time....
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So I repeat my prior question, why are inspectors forcing us to build sealed-up buildings and install energy efficient appliances if more energy is wasted farming bit coin than we will ever save? We are supposed to be doing this "to save the planet".
 
conarb said:
So I repeat my prior question, why are inspectors forcing us to build sealed-up buildings and install energy efficient appliances if more energy is wasted farming bit coin than we will ever save? We are supposed to be doing this "to save the planet".
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The codes do not address or limit service sizes and I cannot address any of that. This is a non-code issue. If the codes did address this it would be a can of worms. Not going down that trail.
 
jpranch said:
The codes do not address or limit service sizes and I cannot address any of that. This is a non-code issue. If the codes did address this it would be a can of worms. Not going down that trail.
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No you can't address it in Wyoming because I don't think you even have green or energy codes up there? But, you do sit on the ICC Board that does publish codes that do negatively affect most of us. Just think, if you had to come from inspecting this bitcoin facility to inspecting a single family home and requiring a blower door test to conserve energy. How could you, in good conscience, do it?
 
Conscience is one thing. Having no control over an issue like this is another thing. The geographic location does not matter. Wyoming, California, Maine, Florida or any other state the building official has no authority to regulate this. But lets say that I had the authority? So now I'm going to regulate how much power a steel mill in Pennsylvania can use? Or what about a date center for Google or Amazon? How about professional sports stadiums? With the bitcoin thing knowing that I have absolutely no say at all and while I might agree it's an energy pig and grossly using electrical energy I will not loose any sleep over it. As far as being on the ICC board in relation to this I would not support ICC venturing into this knowing the certain disaster that would result from such an ill-conceived idea or proposal. Crucify me if you like for my thoughts but currently that is where I stand.
 
Jim:

Overall codes and regulations of all kinds have driven the cost of housing so high that we have people living on the streets, San Francisco County Real Estate is so hot right now that in order to afford a median priced home of $1,610,000, a household needs to bring in around $333,000 in annual income, according to a quarterly survey by the California Association of Realtors. Nearby San Mateo county isn't much better - where a $1,575,000 median priced home requires an income of $326,000.¹

Average permit time is 7 years, I've heard of as long as 22 years, I know our Bay Area is an exceptional case, but if something isn't done this insanity is planned to sweep the nation. Codes and regulations come one at a time, smoke detectors, then CO detectors, then fire sprinklers to take just one example, soon the cost to build is beyond the average person, of course there are those that want to move humankind to the urban cores and stack and pack them into high rises to leave places like Wyoming for the animals, it's coming.

BTW, California has now mandated that homes be zero energy consumption by 2020, that's not ICC but you guys are going to be enforcing it, when will it come to Wyoming?


¹ https://www.car.org/en/aboutus/mediacenter/newsreleases/2018releases/1qtr2018hai
 
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conarb said:
So I repeat my prior question, why are inspectors forcing us to build sealed-up buildings and install energy efficient appliances if more energy is wasted farming bit coin than we will ever save? We are supposed to be doing this "to save the planet".
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This is a good question, but not one you're ever going to get a satisfactory answer to from 99.99% of the government, code officials, or the folks at ICC.

There is of course the other .01%, like me, who agree that there is no rational reason whatsoever for energy provisions to be in the building codes. But this is such an unpopular opinion today that the discussion will lead nowhere, and you'll end up talking/typing 10,000 words and be no further towards convincing any of them. Sadly, this particular war is already lost...
 
& * &

**jpranch**,

I do not know squat about Bitcoin Mining, or the structures
in which the large scale operations are performed......That
said, in doing some very basic searching on the internet, this
type of operation is not new.......Others have been doing this
for awhile now, and still others have been studying these
operations.

What I have found is that: (1) there is a tremendous amount
of upfront investment required in these types of ops......If
your city is considering one of these, I would be talking with
the lawyers to get some ironclad contracts signed, so that
you guys don't lose your shorts, or as much of your shorts as
others have experienced, (2) The amount of heat generated
& lost by these ops. is a serious concern.....Some companies
like 3-M have been developing I.T. Immersion Technology,
where the components in the servers are immersed in a
non-conductive fluid.....That heat capturing is then transferred
to other uses, that "can" provide a Return on the "Upfront"
Investment ( ROI ), such as providing heat to residential &
commercial consumers, ...providing heat to greenhouse ops.,
etc. [ i.e. - the heat exchange can be used for profit......How
much profit ?.......This will take some very good accountants
to perform the calculations ]......(3) Fire suppression would
be similar to other data centers [ i.e. - at least a two stage
approach....First, with non-water based systems, then Second
with water based. ].....(4) There will be a significant loss in
electrical energy consumption......Currently, the power curves
are not very efficient [ 70-80% efficiency ]....Again, there have
been and currently are, companies that have studied and are
studying and developing concepts & methods to improve the
"power losses".

Here are 3 Links that I looked at & read.....There are tons
more out there:
(1) 42U - http://archive.42u.com/cooling/server-room-cooling/server-room-air-conditioner.htm

(2) https://btcmanager.com/bitcoin-pioneer-harnessing-excess-mining-heat-to-produce-cash-crops/

(3) https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/novec-us/applications/immersion-cooling/

Hope this helps !

& * &
 
The codes for sure affect the cost of a home but I would argue that state, county, or municipal above code provisions have a far greater impact. Geographic location is a huge player. You don't need a million dollars to own a home in most of the country. To lay the loins share of blame just on the codes for home prices and nothing else would not be looking at the whole picture.
 
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