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New home owner - Code violation

subservious

Registered User
Joined
Jun 12, 2019
Messages
11
Location
Seminole County, FL
Hey everyone. I purchased the home approximately 10 months ago. It is in an unincorporated neighborhood in Seminole County, Florida. Needless to say, it is not the "nicest" looking neighborhood and there are obvious code violations at probably every house.

Well for some reason, I received a letter from code enforcement for the carport attached to my home. In the letter, they cited code 105.1. It is an aluminum carport that has been through MANY hurricanes. Looking at the permits, I can see the original carport was permitted to be converted in to a room back in 1997. With the permit being that old though, I can not see all of the details on it. My neighbor is still in contact with the people that converted the old carport and they said that the new carport that was built was part of the old carport conversion. I asked code enforcement about viewing the original drawings and they said that they do not keep records that old.

Another issue is that the carport is approximately 3-4 feet from the property line. The setbacks list it at 7.5 feet. There are a lot of sheds and carports close to the property line in this neighborhood, so I have a feeling that the requirement was different 20 years ago.

I noticed the first Florida building code went in to effect on March 1, 2002. With the carport being built in 1997-1998, I am not sure if this can benefit me at all.

Am I screwed here? From what I can gather, my only option is to demolish the existing carport. With the setback requirements, that leave me less than 8 feet to build on, so I couldn't even rebuild the carport if I wanted to. Code enforcement mentioned detaching it from the home and making it free standing, but they couldn't really say for sure if that was an option or not. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
Was the letter about zoning or building codes? I don't understand if they don't keep records that old how did you get the old permit. Is it a zoning or building permit?
 
The letter provides reference to a building code (Florida Residential Building Code). Section provided (see below) is a commonly used and extremely vague section to reference. The equivalent of saying you don't have a permit.

If you truely believe the previous owners and that the work was done under the permit on file, then you may be able to challenge that no work is ongoing, therefore a permit is not required. You have not nor intend to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish or change the occupancy of a building or structure. Put the impetus back onto AHJ to show that it was not done under the previous permit.

[A] 105.1 Required
Any owner or owner’s authorized agent who intends to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish or change the occupancy of a building or structure, or to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any impact-resistant coverings, electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by this code, or to cause any such work to be performed, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the required permit.
 
Was the letter about zoning or building codes? I don't understand if they don't keep records that old how did you get the old permit. Is it a zoning or building permit?
The notice reads the following:
Description of violation: Unpermitted addition to the house.
Corrective Actions: Obtain required permits for all work that has been done. Note: Continuing to work on this project without a permit and inspections may result in additional cost and require removal of materials to expose concealed work for inspection.
The letter provides reference to a building code (Florida Residential Building Code). Section provided (see below) is a commonly used and extremely vague section to reference. The equivalent of saying you don't have a permit.

If you truely believe the previous owners and that the work was done under the permit on file, then you may be able to challenge that no work is ongoing, therefore a permit is not required. You have not nor intend to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish or change the occupancy of a building or structure. Put the impetus back onto AHJ to show that it was not done under the previous permit.

[A] 105.1 Required
Any owner or owner’s authorized agent who intends to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish or change the occupancy of a building or structure, or to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any impact-resistant coverings, electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by this code, or to cause any such work to be performed, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the required permit.

I am lead to believe that the past owners did do the job with a permit. A very large concrete slab was poured for the carport. Also, the construction looks very professionally done. It isn't some Lowes construction job. It is a well constructed aluminum carport with proper finishings, gutters, etc... It also is still standing without a single leak for more than 20 years.
 
Was the letter about zoning or building codes? I don't understand if they don't keep records that old how did you get the old permit. Is it a zoning or building permit?
I am able to view that a permit was pulled in 1997 for an existing carport renovation, however the description is very vague. I can not find out any additional details about the permit. When I asked the county about drawings, they said they do not keep records that old.

I am new to all of this, but I find it a bit odd that Zillow has the carport being added in 1998. Also the property appraisal, which has the layout of my home, has the carport listed on the appraisal for my taxes. I guess the county and property appraisal offices do not cross reference information.
 
I asked code enforcement about viewing the original drawings and they said that they do not keep records that old.

R106.5 Retention of construction documents required for 180 days from date of completion of the permitted work, OR as required by State OR local laws.

Everybody assumes that the city has the plans for their abode. Not always.

Commercial different issue.
 
OK, this is interesting. The County does not have records but does not keep them going back that far anyway concerning permits. They allowed the sale of the property and had not flagged it. You say you purchased the home with the existing carport. It may or may not have been constructed under permit with inspections. Hmmm.

I don't see how they could try to enforce this when no work was done and this was an existing structure that the county allowed sale with no holds on it. I am not sure what originally brought this up as an issue but I am curious. Maybe look at the tax records rather than the missing building permit records.
 
Welcome !!

Is the carport shown on the most current survey.
If so does it show the current distances off the property line??




So is the carport open on three sides?

Sounds like you need to set down with the head person in charge.

Go through your story with documentation and see where you stand.

If the answer is still fix it, there should be an appeals process
 
Using google earth pro, I am able to see the carport all of the way back to 2002. I can see what looks like a carport in 1999, but it also could just be a concrete slab. Before 2002 the satellite imagery was basically a black and white blob.

I am the third owner since the original owners constructed the carport.

The survey I had done to purchase the house lists the carport as a roofed area. It does not provide the distance from the property line. The carport is open on three sides.

I have a hunch that my neighbors ex is causing all of this. She had an addition that was built several years ago, that was recently reported. Another neighbor received a violation notice as well, although I'm not sure for what. Meanwhile my next door neighbor has a wooden carport that is collapsing in the middle and is also very close to the property line. He did not receive a violation notice, but he is also good friends with the person I believe reported it. I live in a unincorporated neighborhood that was built in the 50's. I am sure that almost every house in here has some un-permitted addition or structure.
 
The notice reads the following:



I am lead to believe that the past owners did do the job with a permit. A very large concrete slab was poured for the carport. Also, the construction looks very professionally done. It isn't some Lowes construction job. It is a well constructed aluminum carport with proper finishings, gutters, etc... It also is still standing without a single leak for more than 20 years.

Lead by who?
Was it disclosed at time of purchase?
Check with County tax accessor and see when it appeared on the tax roles.
 
Lead by who?
Was it disclosed at time of purchase?
Check with County tax accessor and see when it appeared on the tax roles.

My next door neighbor is still in contact with the couple that built the carport.
I will check with the tax assessor to see if they can verify when it appeared.
 
For as long as I have been an inspector we required covered parking with either a garage or carport. If a person wants to convert an existing garage/carport to habitable space they must replace the lost covered parking with either a carport or a garage. When researching our files I find vague to undecipherable information. If there is a permit for the conversion that has been finaled I must assume that there was a garage or carport built at the same time as the conversion. It can be a two edged sword because sometimes there is no covered parking and they want to add square footage. Alrighty then they shall start with covered parking.

Ask what the policy was when the permit was issued.
 
In this state it is on the AHJ to provide proof before we can make you come into compliance.

Also if we see it is on the tax record for that long we would call it existing none conforming and walk away, we would lose either in the appeals process or court.
 
It would have been built under the Standard Building Code (SBCCI) at that time and should not have to meet the new wind loads under the current Florida Building Code. Since Seminole county was considered an inland county back then the wind loads where not that high compared to the coastal counties.
 
Well, I wrote the office a letter outlining everything I have discovered. After a couple of days, they replied that they pulled the original plans and permit and can confirm the carport is not included on any permit. I am not sure why they all of a sudden have records for it. I requested copies of the permit and plans.

If they did indeed find the original permit, I am not sure what other arguments I have. The inspector said that an anonymous neighbor made a call because of safety concerns about it blowing away in storms. The condition of the carport would not concern anyone driving by, or even inspecting it closely.
 
I would go thru the appeals process. If you haven't done any work to it, the previous own did no work, and its been there that long I think the AHJ has a steep hill to climb to provide a reasonable reason after this long. Here the burden is on the AHJ to justify that it is an actual safety issue if not it would be allowed to stay until it is changed or repaired or damaged and in the permit process it would be address there with a variance or compliance.
 
The inspector handed you a way out. He/she made it clear that the only thing wrong with the carport is a neighbor’s complaint. Having existed for twenty years serves as a testament to it’s suitability. Apparently a piece of paper called a permit is all it lacks.

Too close to a property line? It was built before a State Building Code existed. The surrounding dwellings have many similar examples. The usual humane approach is to recognize existing non conforming and allow them to continue.....but not be replaced or replicated. There’s too much of it. Going after these things is foolish.

But hey now....a neighbor complaining makes it a priority.

Strictly speaking, this action by the AHJ is an unreasonable seizure that violates the fourth amendment of the constitution. Given the lack of proactive enforcement, the shear volume of obvious violations, the absence of structural defects and the tail wagging the dog component of complaint driven enforcement.....the word unreasonable fits.

Divulging the fact that an anonymous complaint spurred this action is a mistake. It is the inspector placing the blame for this somewhere other than with him. He is saying that he wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't a complaint. An insult if there ever was one.

You might volunteer to keep them busy for years to come. I've seen that work a time or two.

Time is on your side. So often the angry neighbor gets over what ever it was that set them off ....The storm passes and the seas calm.
 
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It has been over 2 weeks since I requested the old permit that they were suddenly able to obtain with no reply. Their office was very responsive up until this point. Is it possible they were bluffing about finding the old permit and this just went away? From what I have read, they can't do anything legally without sending me a certified letter requesting a court appearance. Does this sound correct? I want to make sure a lien isn't placed on the house that I don't' find out about for a couple of years.

I fully intend on appealing their decision up until this point. I just find it odd that they did not respond to my last letter and don't want to poke a sleeping bear if I don't have to.
 
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