• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Can I force the landlord install a RAMP in front of the building (Brooklyn, NY)

M

Mystiky2021

Registered User
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
4
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I am writing here as I know there are many experts here.

My mom is not wheel-chair bound, but she has a very hard time with her walker entering her building, which is a 6-story private apartment building located nearby to Maimonides Hospital, located in Boro Park, Brooklyn. There are approximately 70 apartments in the building and it is rent stabilized.

I am attaching three photos to show how "narrow" the current concrete platform is. Please go here to see them:

https://imageshack.com/a/1g4w7/1

The exact measurements are:

Concrete Platform (in front of the outside doors) is 80 inches long and only 19.8 inches wide. The standard walker is 24 inches long, meaning that there is not enough space for the walker to complete be flat on it. So she has to somehow to push the door far enough, and she does not have the strength to do it.

The doors are each 40 inches wide, but only the right side opens to the inside. Once inside, there is another same set of doors, of which the right side one needs to be opened with a security key. There is ample space to operate in front of the second (internal door), as there is about 5 feet between them.

There is NO ramp anywhere to enter the building.

After seeing the photos and reading the above, can someone please advise me if a either 1) a ramp extension can be built to help ease the situation OR 2) the current Concrete Platform has be extended to le say 30 inches (at least).

Any and all opinions are very much appreciated.
 
$ ~ $ ~ $

Mystiky2021,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !

Yes, the existing concrete step could be altered to
provide a ramp..........Who do you believe should
pay for the alteration ?

IMO, ...you "could" certainly ask the bldg. owner to
alter it [ i.e. - ask in writing ]..........Does the City
of Brooklyn provide any type of ADA enforcement
or assistance ?

What legal rights, if any, are there for a "Rent
Stabilized Property" ?

Is it possible for you to find another "more user friendly"
place for your mom to live ?

$ ~ $ ~ $
 
north star said:
$ ~ $ ~ $

Mystiky2021,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !

Yes, the existing concrete step could be altered to
provide a ramp..........Who do you believe should
pay for the alteration ?

IMO, ...you "could" certainly ask the bldg. owner to
alter it [ i.e. - ask in writing ]..........Does the City
of Brooklyn provide any type of ADA enforcement
or assistance ?

What legal rights, if any, are there for a "Rent
Stabilized Property" ?

Is it possible for you to find another "more user friendly"
place for your mom to live ?

$ ~ $ ~ $
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I would hope that the DOB would require the apartment building landlord to implement these changes. My mom has lived there for 40+ years and moving is not an option. There are plenty of other older folks who live there.

This is exactly why I wrote in this forum to find out if there are ADA-mandated requirements that I can use to make it happen. I have seen a few links out there like:


randpc.com

Installing an ADA-Compliant Ramp

An article detailing what goes into building wheelchair ramps that comply with the American with Disabilities Act.
randpc.com randpc.com

Again, all help is appreciated.
 
You may have to get a lawyer involved to threaten a civil lawsuit to get the LL to take action. And expect the LL to fight back. You could get the newspapers and tv stations involved, but i suspect in nyc nobody will care.
 
I was hoping that there is an architect here who can tell me if this concrete step is too narrow by the code of NY City. If that is the case (meaning has to be a minimum of let say 32 inches) then I can go directly to the landlord and tell him "Sir, either fix it (expand it), or I am going to the Department of Buildings and filing a complaint.

That's the kind of info I am looking for. And if you tell me, please quote the law page number, or code. THANK YOU!
 
ADA does not apply to a private apartment building. The building is only required to meet the code at the time it was built or a particular element modified; very unlikely to help you in this case. The Fair Housing act does apply and you can force the landlord to make a reasonable accommodation (a ramp to the entrance would certainly qualify) but your mother would have to pay for the ramp.
 
Then again if your mother falls because of the narrow landing she may own the building when she is done suing the owner.
I think ADA would apply to the common areas of the apartment building
 
mtlogcabin said:
Then again if your mother falls because of the narrow landing she may own the building when she is done suing the owner.
I think ADA would apply to the common areas of the apartment building
Click to expand...
You may think that ADA applies, but it doesn't unless they are for public accommodation, which means used by people who are not residents or guests of residents.
 
redeyedfly said:
which means used by people who are not residents or guests of residents.
Click to expand...
So the front entrance to a 70 unit apartment building will never have a guest in any apartment or a delivery person ever deliver goods or food.
Just because it has a secured entrance does not determine a guest or other non-resident will not enter the building
 
mtlogcabin said:
So the front entrance to a 70 unit apartment building will never have a guest in any apartment or a delivery person ever deliver goods or food.
Just because it has a secured entrance does not determine a guest or other non-resident will not enter the building
Click to expand...
I'm sorry that you don't understand the scope of the ADA but no, none of the things you listed would trigger the ADA for an apartment building. Delivery people are guests of the residents.
ADA typically only applies to apartments which have a leasing office (and only the office itself and the route leading to it) or facilities (such as a banquet room) which can be rented by non-residents. We have the FHA that covers apartment buildings, they are not the same thing.
 
2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design section 36.403 Alterations: Path of Travel requires alterations made after Jan. 26, 1992 to include spending up to 20% of the alteration cost to make the path of travel accessible. However, I don't see where it requires alterations to be made specifically for accessibility.

The Fair Housing Amendments only apply to multi-family housing built for first occupancy after March 13, 1991.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Paul Sweet said:
2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design section 36.403 Alterations: Path of Travel requires alterations made after Jan. 26, 1992 to include spending up to 20% of the alteration cost to make the path of travel accessible. However, I don't see where it requires alterations to be made specifically for accessiblity.

The Fair Housing Amendments only apply to multifamily housing built for first occupancy after March 13, 1991.
Click to expand...
Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built.
 
Thank you again everyone on the input. I guess I will write the landlord an email, letting him know of the situation and if my mom falls again (she has twice, dealing with this problem but luckily, she did not get hurt), he will be on the hook for a lawsuit.
 
@ ~ @ ~ @

Mystiky2021,

Thank you for coming to this Forum for your issue \
questions.

We want to help you, and others, but we are limited
on our "first hand knowledge" of all the facts and
conditions.

The LL may or may not respond to such an e-mail.
I would suppose "most likely not" !........They would
not want to formally acknowledge the conditions
present [ i.e. - claimed ignorance ].

Are you willing to pay for the alterations to the door
landing ?.....What about other non-ADA compliant
conditions [ i.e. - correct door width, ...correct door
hardware, ...exterior & interior lighting amounts,
...correct door opening psi amount, ...Signage, etc. ] ?

As a recommendation, you may want to write to the
Department of Justice, or find a local ADA Compliance
organization that can provide you with the legalities
of what you are wanting to get accomplished.

May I also request that you please come back on
here to let us know how things turn out ? :)

@ ~ @ ~ @
 
I'm guessing here, I suspect that the building owner cannot raise the rent when the lease is up to make upgrades becuse of the rent stabalization agreement? So a entrance upgrade would be out of pocket for the LL?

Does the rent stablization agreement require a private apartment building meet ADA?

I was on the impression that aprtment buildings have to have a % of apartment to meet ADA. At that point access to the building would be required to be ADA compliant.

Qusetion, is there other entrances that meet the ADA access requirement into the building or is this a prefered exit by the tenent?
 
Perhaps you can provide the language from the ADA that would clarify this and thus educate us on this board since that is one of the main purposes of this forum is to gain knowledge and make corrections where we are wrong in our application of the codes to specific facilities.
I admit I reference ADA when I should be stating FHA or Hud or ANSI
 
mtlogcabin said:
Perhaps you can provide the language from the ADA that would clarify this and thus educate us on this board since that is one of the main purposes of this forum is to gain knowledge and make corrections where we are wrong in our application of the codes to specific facilities.
I admit I reference ADA when I should be stating FHA or Hud or ANSI
Click to expand...
Title III Public Accommodations and Commercial Facilities
§ 36.102 Application. (a) General. This part applies to any – (1) Public accommodation; (2) Commercial facility; or (3) Private entity that offers examinations or courses related to applications, licensing, certification, or credentialing for secondary or postsecondary education, professional, or trade purposes. (b) Public accommodations. (1) The requirements of this part applicable to public accommodations are set forth in subparts B, C, and D of this part. (2) The requirements of subparts B and C of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to the operations of a place of public accommodation. (3) The requirements of subpart D of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to – (i) A facility used as, or designed or constructed for use as, a place of public accommodation; or (ii) A facility used as, or designed and constructed for use as, a commercial facility. (c) Commercial facilities. The requirements of this part applicable to commercial facilities are set forth in subpart D of this part. (d) Examinations and courses. The requirements of this part applicable to private entities that offer examinations or courses as specified in paragraph (a) of this section are set forth in § 36.309. (e) Exemptions and exclusions. This part does not apply to any private club (except to the extent that the facilities of the private club are made available to customers or patrons of a place of public accommodation), or to any religious entity or public entity.

Not apartments.
 
"Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built."

What section of FHA says this? I'm not challenging you, but I'm not as familiar with FHA as I am with ADA.
 
Paul Sweet said:
"Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built."

What section of FHA says this? I'm not challenging you, but I'm not as familiar with FHA as I am with ADA.
Click to expand...
All of the Act. The design and construction requirements apply to new construction started after 1991 but the rest of it applies to nearly all housing (they have enumerated exceptions).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top