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Pool Fence Gate

A

artbuc

Registered User
Joined
Mar 24, 2022
Messages
32
Location
Chester County, PA
We live in a 55+ community in Chester County PA. We are replacing the hinges and latch on our pool fence gate and someone asked about an ADA gate. Is there such a thing? I did a quick google search and found out about many pool related ADA requirements but nothing about a gate.

Also I see where the latch must be 54” high (we do not lock our gate). How can a 54” latch be ADA compliant?

Thanks for your help. I am calling our contractor tomorrow and wanted to get better informed.
 
There may be some question as to whether ADA applies to your community , if it is private housing that is not open to the general public. But for the sake of this discussion, let's assume it does apply. See 2010 ADA Standards 404.2.7 exception #2 below:
1680822056218.png

Note that exception #2 states the 54" is a MAXIMUM to the top of the "operable part" (handle), so don't make it 54 1/32". The minimum in ADA is 34".
I don't know if your local pool code has other limitations.

Please also note additional requirements:


1680822118561.png


1680822163123.png


For a really good adjustable closer+hinge on an outdoor pool gate, my clients prefer this:

https://www.amazon.com/Mammoth-180-...locphy=9031120&hvtargid=pla-438768009569&th=1
 
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Yes, our HOA is interested in ADA compliance to help residents whether or not it is a legal requirement.

Requiring a latch to be 54” high does not seem ADA friendly. Can you reach that from a wheelchair?

The maneuverability charts are interesting. Isn’t there a minimum gate width? I was thinking you would need an automatic opener but a child could reach the button and open the gate. Seems like there are competing interests here.
 
Some jurisdictions have requirements for safety of children for it being higher than it might need to be for accessibility. Personally I'd lean towards saving children from drowning and having to provide assistance to someone to reach the latch.
 
bill1952 said:
Some jurisdictions have requirements for safety of children for it being higher than it might need to be for accessibility. Personally I'd lean towards saving children from drowning and having to provide assistance to someone to reach the latch.
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We are 55+ community. We have children very infrequently and they are always accompanied by an adult.
 
artbuc said:
We are 55+ community. We have children very infrequently and they are always accompanied by an adult.
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Roll the dice. Take a chance. Live on the edge. The odds are on your side. If a child does drown .... well there's insurance that you pay for and never get to utilize...so there's that.
 
artbuc said:
Yes, our HOA is interested in ADA compliance to help residents whether or not it is a legal requirement.

Requiring a latch to be 54” high does not seem ADA friendly. Can you reach that from a wheelchair?

The maneuverability charts are interesting. Isn’t there a minimum gate width? I was thinking you would need an automatic opener but a child could reach the button and open the gate. Seems like there are competing interests here.
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ADA normally assumes a maximum 48" upper reach range for many components:
1680830542336.png
But ADA also makes specific exceptions for pool gates (as quoted in earlier post), gas station pumps, and other items.


Other accessibility regulations such as The Fair Housing Act assumes 54" max. for certain other controls:
1680830980634.png
1680830998847.png

Given the concerns about kids and pools, if ADA offers you a 54" max reach range, I'd take it.
If you want it at a lower height, there's other security measures you could do, such as card reader locks, etc.



Minimum gate width for ADA access is 32" net clear when opened at 90 degrees. By the time you account for hinges, gate thickness, and hardware, it's best practice to have a minimum 36" wide gate. Of course, your gate might be bigger for other non-ADA reasons, such as if you had a large # of occupants in the pool area and the fire/building codes required it. Best to consult a design professional at that point.
 
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ICE said:
Roll the dice. Take a chance. Live on the edge. The odds are on your side. If a child does drown .... well there's insurance that you pay for and never get to utilize...so there's that.
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That is a ridiculous response. My point was if we have an allowable range on height we would likely go to the low side.
 
Most pool areas I have worked on are normally like off campus housing pool areas they are always locked with access cards to release.

If the pool area is never locked and only looking for the manual release point, then the top latch works fine and most people in wheel chairs that I have spoken to on this topic have always agreed on the safety of the kids before the simpler access.

As to the remark on 1/32 over the 54, well I hate to say it but, this absolute garbage on a maximum meeting a minimum requirement to be that precise and tight when dealing with walkways and gates that in many locations move during each season, I am sorry, but the whole being perfect thing is just not realistic.
 
artbuc said:
That is a ridiculous response. My point was if we have an allowable range on height we would likely go to the low side.
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You're correct. That was ridiculous.... no insurance company would cover you.
 
tbz said:
As to the remark on 1/32 over the 54, well I hate to say it but, this absolute garbage on a maximum meeting a minimum requirement to be that precise and tight when dealing with walkways and gates that in many locations move during each season, I am sorry, but the whole being perfect thing is just not realistic.
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True ... except a range has been given, not an exact requirement. So it could be set 1/32” low and meet requirements, and have a construction tolerance built in. If the requirement was 54” then some tolerance is reasonable. But when it says not more than … then it should be “not more than”.
 

​

​

§ 18.86. Grounding requirements.​


(a) Grounding shall conform with the following:

(1) Metal fences or railings on which a broken electrical conductor might fall shall be effectively grounded.

(2) A driven ground rod shall be placed at two locations close to and on either side of each crossing.

(3) A ground shall be provided for parallel exposure, near each end of the exposure and at intervals of not more than 300 feet within the exposure.

(b) Water and other piping to and from the public bathing place, including inlet and outlet pipes, shall be metallically bonded together and adequately connected to the same grounding electrode used to ground the neutral conductor of the electrical system. This shall be in addition to the grounding requirements for electrical equipment and circuits as required by the National Electrical Code.



Source



The provisions of this § 18.86 adopted September 18, 1971, effective September 18, 1971, 1 Pa.B. 1921.

PA swimming pool code is here.
There are rules on bathing suits and towels but I didn't find anything related to a barrier. I posted the electrical portion just because it seems strange and that's all there is. Apparently each township has it's own regulations and the County has none. I could be wrong about that but getting information is not easy.

Then there's the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act which mentions children but not a barrier.

The US Access Board on pools with a lot except any mention of a gate.

Last and least is the publication Pool Safety. It mentions a gate and says that it should be self closing and self latching. The barrier to the pool is also mentioned and is a minimum 4 ft. high... so one wouldn't expect the gate latch to be any higher than 4 ft. and in fact there is no regulation for the latch.

This was all found at the PA State Dept. of Health.

So apparently artbuc and his HOA can do whatever suits them.... as long as they store their suits in a sanitary manner.

§ 18.54. Bathing suits and towels.​


Bathing suits and towels shall be thoroughly cleaned and dried each time they are used in a manner that precludes the transmission of disease, and they shall be stored in a clean and sanitary manner.
 
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tbz said:
As to the remark on 1/32 over the 54, well I hate to say it but, this absolute garbage on a maximum meeting a minimum requirement to be that precise and tight when dealing with walkways and gates that in many locations move during each season, I am sorry, but the whole being perfect thing is just not realistic.
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TBZ, I agree it doesn't have to be perfect. The pool gate operating hardware just has to be between 34" and 54". That's 20" of range / tolerance.
But if you are at 33 31/32" or 54 1/32" you are subject to an ADA claim.

To be more specific, when ADA states an absolute number, then it's subject to construction industry tolerances. Here's a perfect example, a shower that is an absolute of 36" wide. Industry standard for fiberglass shower molds is to have 3/8" variance on the flaring of the walls (so they can pop the shower off of the mold that forms it).

1680895035907.png

But if a dimension in ADA is expressed as either a minimum, a maximum, or a range between a minimum and maximum, then that IS the total extent of the tolerance.

Here's a minimum of 13 1/2" urinal depth. A 10 foot deep urinal would comply. A 13 15/32" urinal would not comply.

1680895387568.png


Here's 33-36" to the top of grab bar.
35" would comply. 36 1/32" would not comply.

1680895259384.png
 
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Link to CPSC recommendations on pool safety, which includes a barrier self closing gate with latch out of children's reach. It notes to the high number of children 3-5 who drown in swimming pools every year. It was just so easy to imagine grandpa falling asleep on a sofa and a 3 to 5 year old grandchild wanting to go back to the pool. https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/362 Safety Barrier Guidelines for Pools.pdf

I don't care how high the latch is, just sharing what I believe is the collective wisdom of a lot of safety professionals including some who are the most ardent disability rights advocates, who recognize this issue.
 
One other note about tolerances (yes, I'm now off-topic of the OP).
Limitations of tolerance within measuring devices is not the same as either a code tolerance or construction industry tolerance.

For example, the industry standard for most CASPs and other access specialists is to filed measure for slope compliance using a 2' smart level.
Most commercially available smart levels are generally only accurate to within 0.3%. If your plan for an ADA parking stall called for maximum 2% slope, but post-construction your smart level shows a slope of 2.2%, it will probably not be called out as noncompliant.

But if the original plan called for 2.2% slope on the parking stall, that would be considered a non-ADA-compliant design.
 
Well, I could not be more confused. I will see what our fence contractor says and talk to township. May have to talk with our lawyer. Our pool is considered private since it is an amenity paid for by residents. Private pools must have latches on the pool side at least 3” below top of gate. Now that will be a big problem. Having sad that there has been a very recent legal case re the PA UCC and accessibility. So, I do not know who is calling the shots on this.
 
artbuc said:
Well, I could not be more confused.
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I spoke to the County and came away with the idea that the townships adopt codes as they see fit and apparently the codes can vary widely. The ultimate arbiter is the township. However having heard discussion about the code enforcement in PA I'm not so sure that I would trust the local AHJ. Perhaps a more stringent set of requirements such as I have provided is a better alternative.

For example, the info that I found from the State of PA has a 48" high fence whereas the document I have included has a 5' high barrier.
 

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ICE said:
I spoke to the County and came away with the idea that the townships adopt codes as they see fit and apparently the codes can vary widely. The ultimate arbiter is the township. However having heard discussion about the code enforcement in PA I'm not so sure that I would trust the local AHJ. Perhaps a more stringent set of requirements such as I have provided is a better alternative.

For example, the info that I found from the State of PA has a 48" high fence whereas the document I have included has a 5' high barrier.
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We have a 5’ fence/gate. If we have to put latch on pool side at least 3” below top of fence (private pool requirement) we are screwed. Many of our residents will have a lot of trouble with that.
 
You seem to be spinning your wheels, finding a reason to fault every suggestion. You mentioned a lawyer … you need to get engage him for professional advice and move on, start enjoying life.
 
The 5’ barrier in the LA County document is a pedestrian barrier that controls the perimeter and has been proven effective in reducing the number of children drowning in pools. The degree of difficulty is what makes it work. The bottom line is that you must follow the law. If there is no law to follow, perhaps the insurance company can advise you.

It isn’t a matter of what you want to do but what you must do. Do not pay attention to what you found here unless the township is no help….but ask them.
 
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