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Does a Fence Require a Permit?

jar546

jar546

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We plan to install a new fence around our backyard. Is a building permit required for fencing projects?
 
Mr. Inspector said:
When it comes to defining boundaries, fences and walls are two common options. However, many people use these terms interchangeably, which can cause confusion. So, what exactly is the difference between a fence and a wall?

It’s important to note that both a fence and a wall are used for the same purpose – to separate one area from another. The main difference is in their construction and appearance.

A fence is a freestanding structure that is typically made up of posts and rails or panels. Fences can be made from a variety of materials, such as wood, vinyl, metal, or chain link. They are usually shorter than walls and are often used to mark property lines, keep pets or children in the yard, or add aesthetic appeal to a home.

On the other hand, a wall is a solid structure that is typically made of brick, stone, concrete, or other masonry materials. Walls are taller than fences and are often used for security and privacy purposes. They can also be used to retain soil or create a barrier against noise or wind.

Now that we’ve established the difference between a fence and a wall, let’s dive deeper into the pros and cons of each option.

Define Fence
A fence is a barrier made of posts, rails, boards, or wire that is used to enclose an area, typically outdoors. Fences are commonly used to provide privacy, security, and aesthetic appeal to a property. They can be made from a variety of materials such as wood, vinyl, metal, or chain link.

Fences can be designed in various styles, such as picket, split rail, privacy, or lattice. Each style offers a unique look and functionality. Picket fences are decorative and provide minimal privacy, while privacy fences are tall and block the view from the outside. Split rail fences are commonly used for agricultural purposes and provide a rustic look to a property. Lattice fences are designed to provide partial privacy while allowing for air flow and light to pass through.

Define Wall
A wall is a solid structure made of bricks, stones, concrete, or other materials that is used to enclose an area. Walls are typically taller and thicker than fences and are designed to provide more privacy and security to a property. Walls can be used for decorative purposes as well and can be designed in various styles such as brick, stone, or stucco.

Walls can be load-bearing or non-load-bearing. Load-bearing walls are designed to support the weight of a building or other structures, while non-load-bearing walls are used for partitioning rooms or for decorative purposes. Walls can also be designed to include gates or doors for access to the enclosed area.
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Too many "usually"s and "typically"s to be code useful.

I put two 4x4s in my yard 4' apart and attach some screening, all as a back drop or view block for something. Not a fence by any means. I put that same thing along my 150' property line with lots of posts, and it's a fence, no matter how tall or how solid or not the infill. I do same two things but with 8' cmu. One is not a fence, the other is. It's not the structure that makes it a fence, but the function it performs.

In the same example as above, I use 1x6s horizontally. How close together do they have to be for it to be a wall? I assume if they overlap like clapboards, it's a wall. If you can see between the boards is it no longer a wall? If when it's built and boards butted, it's a wall; is it still a wall when it dries and you can see through or did it become a fence?
 
Paul Sweet said:
It's a wall if you want to regulate it. It's a fence if you don't care if it's regulated.
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How would you define a site "wall" vs. "fence"?

The IBC 202 definition of "wall" is that it is "used to enclose space", but without an attached roof, a site wall does not enclose a space, it only bounds a space.
 
Yikes said:
How would you define a site "wall" vs. "fence"?

The IBC 202 definition of "wall" is that it is "used to enclose space", but without an attached roof, a site wall does not enclose a space, it only bounds a space.
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You are saying a yard is not a space? IMHO, the fence defines a space....
You are saying a low wall in a house/office does not define a space, because there is no roof attached?
Definitions from Oxford Dictionary
space
noun
1.a continuous area or expanse which is free, available, or unoccupied.
"a table took up much of the space"
 
jar546 said:
Just getting this new section jump started.

Here is my official answer:

  1. If it is greater than 6' tall, then yes, a permit is required.
  2. If it is part of a pool barrier then yes, a permit is required.
If nothing else, usually zoning approval is required at a minimum, but not always a permit.
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Your test scenario centers on a residential back yard located in California. There is no hard & fast rule other than ask the local AHJ. Just a guess on my part but the rest of the USA is sorta the same.

You have included the CBC with #2 above. Is that found in the CRC?

Your #2 does raise a question. Suppose that I endeavor to replace a fence and my neighbor has a swimming pool. Assume that the existing fence is the only barrier. Am I required to obtain a permit? Taken a step further, must I erect a code compliant swimming pool barrier?
 
ICE said:
Your test scenario centers on a residential back yard located in California. There is no hard & fast rule other than ask the local AHJ. Just a guess on my part but the rest of the USA is sorta the same.

You have included the CBC with #2 above. Is that found in the CRC?

Your #2 does raise a question. Suppose that I endeavor to replace a fence and my neighbor has a swimming pool. Assume that the existing fence is the only barrier. Am I required to obtain a permit? Taken a step further, must I erect a code compliant swimming pool barrier?
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My opinion is known to be unpopular but......Whoever owns the pool is responsible for maintaining the barrier.....You own it and tear it down, they are in violation and they put one up and get a permit....
 
mark handler said:
You are saying a yard is not a space? IMHO, the fence defines a space....
You are saying a low wall in a house/office does not define a space, because there is no roof attached?
Definitions from Oxford Dictionary
space
noun
1.a continuous area or expanse which is free, available, or unoccupied.
"a table took up much of the space"
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Yes, but the word to focus on is "enclose".
A residential property that is bounded on the side and rear yards but is open at the front yard is not "enclosed". And whatever you put on that property line is not a "wall", it is a "fence", whether it is made of CMU or of chain link.
That' why I don't think "wall" vs. "fence" is a helpful distinction on what requires a permit.
 
steveray said:
Not to get political, but after this election I may be asking you or tmurray for a job up there....The metric system makes me itch, but I might be able to get over that....
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Most plans and industry are still imperial. Only our code is strictly in metric. You get good at conversion fast.
 
steveray said:
My opinion is known to be unpopular but......Whoever owns the pool is responsible for maintaining the barrier.....You own it and tear it down, they are in violation and they put one up and get a permit....
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Actually, had a similar issue. Someone called to complain about a neighbour putting up a fence without a permit. When I talked to the fence builder (owner), they indicated they had just given birth and noted that the neighbour (yes, the one who complained) had a pool without a fence (which I obviously noted as well). It was an aboveground pool, but they had constructed a retaining wall on the side, so there was grade-level access to the pool. This was right in the middle of a subdivision. So, I did get the unpermitted fence removed and made the complainant erect a fence around their pool.
 
jar546 said:
Then its not a fence. Its a wall.
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I like to use Webster's 1828 dictionary at times to clarify earlier definitions when compared to todays use of words and definitions.

As far as the code is concerned I believe a fence is synonyms with a wall with regards to the exemption of requiring a permit.


FENCE, noun fens. [See Fend.]

1. A wall, hedge, ditch, bank, or line of posts and rails, or of boards or pickets, intended to confine beasts from straying, and to guard a field from being entered by cattle, or from other encroachment. A good farmer has good fences about his farm; an insufficient fence is evidence of bad management. Broken windows and poor fences are evidences of idleness or poverty or of both.

2. A guard; any thing to restrain entrance; that which defends from attack, approach or injury; security; defense.

FENCE, verb transitive fens.

1. To inclose with a hedge, wall, or any thing that prevents the escape or entrance of cattle; to secure by an inclosure. In New England, farmers, for the most part, fence their lands with posts and rails, or with stone walls. In England, lands are usually fenced with hedges and ditches.

WALL, noun [Latin , stake, post, probably originally a fence of stakes, a palisade or stockade; the first rude fortification of uncivilized men.]

1. A work or structure of stone, brick or other materials, raised to some highth, and intended for a defense or security. Walls of stone, with or without cement, are much used in America for fences on farms; walls are laid as the foundations of houses and the security of cellars. Walls of stone or brick form the exterior of buildings, and they are often raised round cities and forts as a defense against enemies.
 
I found the official definition of the word fence in the building code. See below:

[A] 104.1 General. The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.
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