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Residential range-top fire suppression system

mark handler

SAWHORSE
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Oct 25, 2009
Messages
11,665
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So. CA
Residential range-top fire suppression system

http://www.iflss.net/buyg300B.php

guardian(3).jpg
 
Wonder what they use? They say "fire suppressant" but they don't say what it is, can't be Halon anymore, maybe just CO2? But that would inflame the Greenies who think CO2 is destroying the planet.
 
Well, that's an expensive way to replace a wet towel. I wonder if people that buy that really know what they're in for when it detonates.

Brent.
Some cities are requiring them in apartment units
 
Wonder what they use? They say "fire suppressant" but they don't say what it is, can't be Halon anymore, maybe just CO2? But that would inflame the Greenies who think CO2 is destroying the planet.[/quotehttp://www.iflss.net/Guardian%20300-B%20Specs.pdf

Potassium carbonate based
People with kidney disease can not take any potassium in their diets, it gets from the alimentary tract into the blood stream and is filtered through the kidneys. I have no idea if potassium inhaled gets into the kidneys. Sounds like it might be worth the risk if homes with it installed could eliminate the water sprinkler requirement.
 
People with kidney disease can not take any potassium in their diets, it gets from the alimentary tract into the blood stream and is filtered through the kidneys. I have no idea if potassium inhaled gets into the kidneys. Sounds like it might be worth the risk if homes with it installed could eliminate the water sprinkler requirement.
I don't think that's the case at all. They maybe required by the municipal ordinances and rule, but I doubt they extend beyond their intent which appears to be range top suppression. Can't see it having any effect on true sprinkler requirements.
 
I don't think that's the case at all. They maybe required by the municipal ordinances and rule, but I doubt they extend beyond their intent which appears to be range top suppression. Can't see it having any effect on true sprinkler requirements.
Since home fires and deaths are way down, and the vast majority of home fires start in cooking, my thinking is that this system could eliminate the sprinkler requirement. The leading causes of death are heart related, cancer, and medical malpractice with up to 440,000 per year, the last I saw home fires were under 2,000 per year, the money spent on fire sprinklers could be better spent on better medical training. If these stove top suppression systems could cut the home fire deaths in half that would leave less than a 1,000 deaths per year from home fires, negligible compared to medical malpractice.
 
Since home fires and deaths are way down, and the vast majority of home fires start in cooking, my thinking is that this system could eliminate the sprinkler requirement. The leading causes of death are heart related, cancer, and medical malpractice with up to 440,000 per year, the last I saw home fires were under 2,000 per year, the money spent on fire sprinklers could be better spent on better medical training. If these stove top suppression systems could cut the home fire deaths in half that would leave less than a 1,000 deaths per year from home fires, negligible compared to medical malpractice.
it is certainly the leading cause of fires with the time frame for most fires being in the 5-6pm range based on NFPA studies, but this is also when the least number of deaths occur. Most deaths occur at 3am. So are the sprinklers to prevent fires or deaths? The problem is not in suppression and never has been. Houses are designed to burn to the ground once the occupants safely get out. This really requires proper smoke alarm systems that we see in more modern construction. The problem in recent years has been the owners not properly maintaining and in some cases crippling the alarm system. The new sealed ten year units are a big step forward though.
 
Since home fires and deaths are way down, and the vast majority of home fires start in cooking, my thinking is that this system could eliminate the sprinkler requirement.
Won't ever happen and would be a large step in the wrong direction. New homes are built to burn, fires are burning hotter, faster and engineered wood products are failing in short times. As more new house become old and the overall housing stock transitions from tradition legacy construction to the newer lightweight you'll see a rise or resurgence in fire deaths unless we proactively provide the protection a sprinkler system brings. We should focus on bring down the cost of these life saving systems, widespread adoption of all section of any of the major code sets would bring commodity prices lower in regions and breed competition lower costs.
 
it is certainly the leading cause of fires with the time frame for most fires being in the 5-6pm range based on NFPA studies, but this is also when the least number of deaths occur. Most deaths occur at 3am. So are the sprinklers to prevent fires or deaths? The problem is not in suppression and never has been. Houses are designed to burn to the ground once the occupants safely get out. This really requires proper smoke alarm systems that we see in more modern construction. The problem in recent years has been the owners not properly maintaining and in some cases crippling the alarm system. The new sealed ten year units are a big step forward though.
While sprinklers are designed to protect the occupants they are extremely effective in suppressing fires. It will be nearly impossible to get an sprinkler design to cover property protection in one and two family or residential homes where there is very little enforcement of how the dwelling unit is maintained. The issue that makes smoke alarms less effective than they could be is humans. The detectors are not fool proof and false alarms result in either removal or silencing them until it's too late. We responded to a multiple apartment building fire last Thursday where at least three occupied apartments ignored/disregarded their alarms sounding once they saw it was not an issue in their unit, only to find 15 minutes later a significant fire was raging in a first floor unit. By the time everyone realized the severity of the situation some had to escape through heavy smoke conditions. Sprinklers do not make poor decisions.
 
While sprinklers are designed to protect the occupants they are extremely effective in suppressing fires. It will be nearly impossible to get an sprinkler design to cover property protection in one and two family or residential homes where there is very little enforcement of how the dwelling unit is maintained. The issue that makes smoke alarms less effective than they could be is humans. The detectors are not fool proof and false alarms result in either removal or silencing them until it's too late. We responded to a multiple apartment building fire last Thursday where at least three occupied apartments ignored/disregarded their alarms sounding once they saw it was not an issue in their unit, only to find 15 minutes later a significant fire was raging in a first floor unit. By the time everyone realized the severity of the situation some had to escape through heavy smoke conditions. Sprinklers do not make poor decisions.
The problem with residential sprinklers is going to be the same thing as smoke alarms though. After only ten years of mandatory sprinklers, Vancouver found only 95% still working. The National Research Council of Canada found that the number could fall to as much as 60% over the life span of the buildings. If people can't get something as basic as smoke alarms working well; replace it every 10 years and test it at least twice a year, they aren't going to maintain a sprinkler system.
 
How many cooking fires resulted in injuries, death, or property damage. Just saying they are a leading cause of fires doesn't tell us much as they occur in a place pretty much meant to be on fire.

Brent.
 
How many cooking fires resulted in injuries, death, or property damage. Just saying they are a leading cause of fires doesn't tell us much as they occur in a place pretty much meant to be on fire.Brent.
Meant to be on fire? Damn your kitchen must be different than mine! Don't have the stats in front of me, and in all honestly, don't see the point in wasting time trying to convince those not willing to listen. I doubt you'll see the requirements go away, Slowly more places are adopting the regulations as they're in all the major code sets, the stats support their use. Sprinkler requirements are not in place to control only kitchen fires, so I don't see the kitchen only system being a viable alternative. Maybe they have potential to be whole house and cheaper?
 
Meant to be on fire? Damn your kitchen must be different than mine! Don't have the stats in front of me, and in all honestly, don't see the point in wasting time trying to convince those not willing to listen. I doubt you'll see the requirements go away, Slowly more places are adopting the regulations as they're in all the major code sets, the stats support their use. Sprinkler requirements are not in place to control only kitchen fires, so I don't see the kitchen only system being a viable alternative. Maybe they have potential to be whole house and cheaper?
My kitchen is the same as everybody else's. Fire comes right out of the top of the stove. If not actual fire, then red hot coils the same temp as fire.

And I'm not referring to sprinklers, I'm talking about the dumb fire suppression system.

There is not corallary to commercial ansul, as the primary purpose of that is to squelch hood duct fires. No cook worth his salt will activate fire suppression for a stovetop fire unless it's just completely out of control. They just smother it. If you ever see one go off you will know why.

The reason I ask for for some type of statistical review is this; I would like to know if they are counting all fires with no associated damage. Of course, industry and regulators will make the stats look like cooking fires are killing more people than A-10 Warthogs in combat, and causing billions of dollars in damage. I just doubt that. Call me crazy. My point is, is it worth mandating something where the cost is billions of dollars to save a few thousand.

Another thing that bothers me is the statement, and I paraphrase, " you're too stupid to understand so I won't even spend any time to support my position". Usually that's an indication that the position is not well supported.

And just because you feel something is inevitable does not lend credence that it's valid in any way, or even useful.

However, If somebody wants to voluntarily waste their money on one then by all means, have at it.

Brent.
 
In Massachusetts, this issue on whether to have single and two family homes sprinkler has been going on for years. First, the building code is the minimum... so nothing in the code says that they can't put one in, but most choose not to due to cost or they are on wells or what ever reason. But they have the choice to do so. Making it mandatory would only limit it to only those that have the ability to afford a house with a sprinkler system. And my take is, if there really is an issue, why don't we just change the code and require that all sheet rock used be fire rated... period.

I know that I am new here and maybe I should watch from the distance, but this is an interesting topic. Also, I think that we may have moved from the original posters intent of their thread and maybe we shouldn't change it and start a new one? :eagerness:

Getting back to the original post, I have seen that sort of stove top protectors at a factory conversion for a 55 and over apartment complex. Never seen it before, but the town accepted it. Would like to see it in action to get an idea if it really works or not.
 
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