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ADA restroom without accessible route?

BayPointArchitect

BayPointArchitect

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
515
Location
Lincoln
Just like you, I enjoy being known as the guy with the correct answers - not the wrong ones. And it is good to be consistent. But today is not a good day for me.

Given:
A three level building with a basement, main level and upper level. No elevator required.
Two men's and women's restrooms on the main level.
Two men's and women's restrooms in the basement.
Two men's and women's restrooms on the upper level.
No problem with the number of toilet fixtures throughout the entire building.
Building owner wants to add a shower in the basement which is not located on an accessible level.
Does the shower need to be ADA accessible?
My question is not "what does it take to make a shower accessible?" But it is more general.
Eight years ago I told folks that every restroom needs to be ADA compliant regardless of where it is located. But a new coworker has challenged my thinking with the idea that if a restroom is not located along an accessible path, then the restroom does not need to be accessible.

Any thoughts on that?

Thank you,

ICC Certified Plan Reviewer
NFPA Certified Fire Plan Examiner
 
The answer you seek is found in IBC (2015) Section 1109.2. See red text.

1109.2 Toilet and Bathing Facilities
Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible. Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor. Except as provided for in Sections 1109.2.2 and 1109.2.3, at least one of each type of fixture, element, control or dispenser in each accessible toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible.
Exceptions:
1. Toilet rooms or bathing rooms accessed only through a private office, not for common or public use and intended for use by a single occupant, shall be permitted to comply with the specific exceptions in ICC A117.1.
2. This section is not applicable to toilet and bathing rooms that serve dwelling units or sleeping units that are not required to be accessible by Section 1107.
3. Where multiple single-user toilet rooms or bathing rooms are clustered at a single location, at least 50 percent but not less than one room for each use at each cluster shall be accessible.
4. Where no more than one urinal is provided in a toilet room or bathing room, the urinal is not required to be accessible.
5. Toilet rooms or bathing rooms that are part of critical care or intensive care patient sleeping rooms serving Accessible units are not required to be accessible.
6. Toilet rooms or bathing rooms designed for bariatrics patients are not required to comply with the toilet room and bathing room requirement in ICC A117.1. The sleeping units served by bariatrics toilet or bathing rooms shall not count toward the required number of Accessible sleeping units.
7. Where toilet facilities are primarily for children's use, required accessible water closets, toilet compartments and lavatories shall be permitted to comply with children's provision of ICC A117.1.
​
And please everyone take note of the first sentence - "Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible." It is very clear that all shall be accessible, irrespective if on an accessible route. The following sentence only clarifies that minimum fixtures be on the accessible route.
 
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Very good. Although we do not enforce Chapter 11 of the IBC, I am sure that the 2010 ADA has the same philosophy. I was first introduced to this idea after designing a manager's office located in the basement below a large restaurant. Although there was no elevator or ramp, the local AHJ required that the shower and restroom be fully ADA after pointing out that exception #1 "... accessed through a private office ..." does not apply when everything is set up for employees to use it as a locker room and changing room. For the next seven years, I required that every restroom be made accessible. And then came the "cluster concept".
 
BayPoint. I agree with the way you have doing it for years. I would say, yes the shower must be accessible. My understanding has always been ALL restrooms must be accessible (with the private office exception). The reasoning being a disabled person can get "assistance" to the non-accessible floor in the morning and work on that floor all day without being deprived of reasonable restroom access.

Ken
 
Ty J. said:
Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor. .
Click to expand...
I disagree with this statement: "Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible." It is very clear that all shall be accessible, irrespective if on an accessible route because of the clause in red above.

The clause in red is saying that if there are floors that does not need to be accessible, then you cannot place the only accessible restrooms on that floor. Very common sense. And it is making allowance for non accessible restrooms on non accessible floors.

As to the original question, i dont think the shower needs to be accessible, unless the business is the type where employee and/or customers can expect to take a shower. Like a gym. If the tenant wants to add a shower because he sleeps in his office some nights, thats a special case.
 
All new toilet rooms and bathing rooms shall be accessible, even if not on an accessible route.
That "Route" will eventually be added as improvements are made to the facility.
As stated above, "...the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor...." it does not say the new facilities, "Toilet and Bathing" do not need to comply.
Also remember, there are different types of disabilities, not just wheelchair users.
 
e hilton said:
I disagree with this statement: "Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible." It is very clear that all shall be accessible, irrespective if on an accessible route because of the clause in red above.

The clause in red is saying that if there are floors that does not need to be accessible, then you cannot place the only accessible restrooms on that floor. Very common sense. And it is making allowance for non accessible restrooms on non accessible floors.

As to the original question, i dont think the shower needs to be accessible, unless the business is the type where employee and/or customers can expect to take a shower. Like a gym. If the tenant wants to add a shower because he sleeps in his office some nights, thats a special case.
Click to expand...
You disagree with "Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor."

That is code...not my opinion. It is a direct reference from 1109.2. "Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible." is about as clear as the code gets.
 
ehilton - see DOJ findings on government buildings such as two story fire stations..... or for public buildings like libraries.........

Restrooms have to be accessible regardless of location........because as Mark stated, future alterations and changes to the building should slowly make the entire building accessible.
 
2015 IEBC Chapter 7 Alterations Level 1
SECTION 705
ACCESSIBILITY
705.1 General. A facility that is altered shall comply with the
applicable provisions in Sections 705.1.1 through 705.1.14,
and Chapter 11 of the International Building Code unless it is
technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is
technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to
the maximum extent that is technically feasible.
A facility that is constructed or altered to be accessible
shall be maintained accessible during occupancy.
Exceptions:
1. The altered element or space is not required to be on
an accessible route unless required by Section 705.2.

705.2 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary
function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to a, or
contains an area of, primary function, the route to the primary
function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the
primary function area shall include toilet facilities and drinking
fountains serving the area of primary function.

If you use the IEBC there and they are just adding a shower, the shower needs to be accessible but a shower would not be considered "an area containing a primary function" so it does not need an accessible route to it.
 
In your post #2 ... 1109.2 implies that there could be fllors that area not on an accessible route. And if further states that if you have a non accessible floor, there have to be restrooms on other floors.
The OP states that all floors currently have restrooms. No comment is made as to the accessiblility of any if the restrooms, but it can be assumed that the RR on the ground level floor is probably accessible. If it is not, then i would agree that it needs to be made so.
But i still posit that the proposed shower does not need to be accessible, because it is not a primary function and it is not on an accessible floor.
 
Ty J. said:
You disagree with "Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor."
.
Click to expand...
Nope, don’t disagree with that at all.
 
Ty J. said:
And accessible does not mean wheel chair. A person with a bad back/knee/ankle/etc. may be able to slowly traverse a set of stairs, but need grab bars in order to stand from the toilet.

Everyone benefits from accessible features.
Click to expand...

The ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. This includes people who have a record of such an impairment, even if they do not currently have a disability. It also includes individuals who do not have a disability but are regarded as having a disability.

As we all know this definition can cover a wide range of people.
 
Ty J. said:
Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible.
Click to expand...

e hilton said:
In your post #2 ... 1109.2 implies that there could be fllors that area not on an accessible route. And if further states that if you have a non accessible floor, there have to be restrooms on other floors.
The OP states that all floors currently have restrooms. No comment is made as to the accessiblility of any if the restrooms, but it can be assumed that the RR on the ground level floor is probably accessible. If it is not, then i would agree that it needs to be made so.
But i still posit that the proposed shower does not need to be accessible, because it is not a primary function and it is not on an accessible floor.
Click to expand...

EH...If it were a remodeled shower, I might agree with you......As this is a new shower, 1109.2 governs...Accessible....
 
If the shower is in a restroom it is not in an area containing a primary function. But if it is an area containing a primary function at least 20% will need to be spent on an accessible route.

ADA guidelines Alterations [§202.3]
Alterations are defined in the standards (§106.5) as “a change in a building or facility that affects or could affect the usability of a building or facility or portion thereof.” Many types of projects are covered as “alterations,” including remodeling, renovation, rehabilitation, reconstruction, restoration, resurfacing of circulation paths or vehicular ways, and changes or rearrangement of structural parts, elements, or walls. Normal maintenance, reroofing, painting or wallpapering, or changes to mechanical and electrical systems are not considered alterations unless they affect a facility’s usability. For example, a project limited to an HVAC system that includes the addition of thermostats would affect a facility’s usability because it involves elements (operable parts) covered by the standards.

The standards ensure that the opportunities for accessibility presented by an alteration are taken. How and to what extent the standards apply is determined by the scope of a project and the elements and spaces altered. Only those elements or spaces altered are required to comply, but alterations made to areas containing a primary function (a major activity for which a facility is intended) also require an accessible path of travel.
 
Rick, Be careful with this.....

705.2 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary
function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to a, or
contains an area of, primary function, the route to the primary
function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the
primary function area shall include toilet facilities and drinking
fountains serving the area of primary function.

It doesn't say bathing rooms, but typically does include the restrooms...
 
steveray said:
Rick, Be careful with this.....

705.2 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary
function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to a, or
contains an area of, primary function, the route to the primary
function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the
primary function area shall include toilet facilities and drinking
fountains serving the area of primary function.

It doesn't say bathing rooms, but typically does include the restrooms...
Click to expand...


This just means if they are doing alterations in an area containing a primary function you need to have an accessible path to the door of the restroom and to the drinking fountain (besides the entrance) that serves the area containing a primary function that they are working in.

Baypintardhitect did not say what kind of room the shower was going to be put in so we don't know if it is in an area containing a primary function.
 
Commentary for 705.2:

In addition, any toilet rooms and drinking fountains
serving the primary function area must also be made
accessible, even though such facilities and areas
may not by themselves be considered primary function
areas. This would include providing an accessible
route to the toilet rooms and drinking fountains, as
well as altering the existing toilet room, fixtures within
the room and drinking fountains to meet accessibility
requirements.
 
steveray said:
Commentary for 705.2:

In addition, any toilet rooms and drinking fountains
serving the primary function area must also be made
accessible, even though such facilities and areas
may not by themselves be considered primary function
areas. This would include providing an accessible
route to the toilet rooms and drinking fountains, as
well as altering the existing toilet room, fixtures within
the room and drinking fountains to meet accessibility
requirements.
Click to expand...

I hope this puts the debate to an end.
 
Rick18071 said:
705.2 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary
function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to a, or
contains an area of, primary function, the route to the primary
function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the
primary function area shall include toilet facilities and drinking
fountains serving the area of primary function.
Click to expand...

steveray said:
Commentary for 705.2:

In addition, any toilet rooms and drinking fountains
serving the primary function area must also be made
accessible, even though such facilities and areas
may not by themselves be considered primary function
areas. This would include providing an accessible
route to the toilet rooms and drinking fountains, as
well as altering the existing toilet room, fixtures within
the room and drinking fountains to meet accessibility
requirements.
Click to expand...

Odd the commentary says that because this section is only requiring "accessible routes" and doesn't say anything about "accessible" toilet faculties and drinking fountains or that the existing toilet faculties and drinking fountains need to updated to comply to the current accessibility codes.
 
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