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If I agreed with someone every time they said they did something 20 times and it was accepted, I would agree with a lot more people....Usually it is "I have been doing it this way for 30 yrs"

This could be part of the problem:

How much does a Building Inspector make in Indianapolis, IN? The average Building Inspector salary in Indianapolis, IN is $54,848 as of May 28, 2020, but the range typically falls between $46,692 and $62,952.
 
Clients wants, convince do not override the code, there are plenty of business with key for access required to get into different part of their occupancy. Also it seem that only one stairway needs to be accessible from the elevator lobby so there is an uninterrupted connection on the other side. Credentials has move to cell phone enable methods one le thig for the user to carry.

This may be the ticket if acceptable to client. There won't be the circular flow but it doesn't cut off circulation completely. Not seeing the total floor plan, may not be an issue if they have some bypass corridors within areas.
 
If I agreed with someone every time they said they did something 20 times and it was accepted, I would agree with a lot more people....Usually it is "I have been doing it this way for 30 yrs"

This could be part of the problem:

How much does a Building Inspector make in Indianapolis, IN? The average Building Inspector salary in Indianapolis, IN is $54,848 as of May 28, 2020, but the range typically falls between $46,692 and $62,952.

Yes, it is fair to not expect the inspector to blindly just agree regardless of past experiences of applicant.

I also feel that it is fair at a minimum for the inspector to then explain why he doesn't agree and, especially in this case, why it was acceptable for him in the 20 other places he has jurisdiction iand why it is not acceptable in this one case.

What exactly is the difference from the others?

Maybe he is now in the process of rejecting those other ones? Maybe something is just fundamentally different this time around?

That will be very informative and should help in the process of resolving this.
 
You do not want to hear this, but re do the space to allow direct access to the stair from the elevator lobby and provide a code compliant exit from the elevator lobby.
 
You do not want to hear this, but re do the space to allow direct access to the stair from the elevator lobby and provide a code compliant exit from the elevator lobby.

Unfortunately no. We looked into that as we investigated scenarios. Where the stair landing is in relation to the elevators and where we could provide a door, there is not enough room.
 
Updated today. Contractor is moving forward to install two new doors for now. Each one will provide access to the office space from the corridor outside of the elevator lobby. They are removing the maglock for now and may want me to pursue a variance. I have already told them I don't know how the commission will vote...but it would be interesting. In the meantime we have requested a formal interpretation from the State Building Commissioner to put an end to this issue. This will affect more than just our office / projects. I figure if we get this formally addressed, we can put this to bed once and for all. Also, hopefully we will move forward sometime soon to adopt a new code. I am praying we will look at the '21 codes and adopt them by '23. We are a very slow moving state.
 
Wow. Yes, very frustrating.

I've had the experience of living a good number of years in a major international hub and what you proposed and these options I shared are all pretty standard with most offices of multi-national companies.

The main problem I see here is that the client does not see that everyone in their company actually plays a part in security and is relying on things to just automatically happen. Doors are only one part of what should be a security chain that should also be supported by a company's operational protocols.

Tailgating will always be a concern which is why most places do Option 1 where people outside of the company present their credentials at main lobby and are issued appropriate badges there. Security starts way before they get into the elevators. The requirement for escorting also ensures that people identify their purpose and to whom they will be meeting again at point of entry into the building and ensures that someone will get them from the main lobby and accompany them into the elevators. No assigned escort or badge clearly marks someone as not belonging so yes... how can someone then sneak "unbeknownst" to people from the office...

No video cameras to do 24/7 monitoring? People at the office by their nature will not even do the minimum of calling out someone without a badge or unescorted roaming around the office? When office is unoccupied, they don't lock the office floor? They can't configure the alarm to trigger within the actual office to alert their own employees of a security breach? They can't coordinate with building security?

There's a million ways to skin a cat but looks like they are unwilling to explore anything else.

If it is at all possible, they may want to expose themselves to practices by other companies that may inform them of other options especially in light of AHJ not willing to work with current proposal. Someone needs to budge and unfortunately it's the AHJ with the advantage at this point.

Personally from my experience, maglocks are not the best if they are relying on it as a main physical barrier. A good yank or pull is all you need to overcome it (I've seen it happen quite a few times). Reality is that it needs to work within a system.

Good luck with this. Frustrating indeed.

I also thought about introducing a Boon Edam Circlelock and Tourlock combo that I have put in many locations as well. Problem with them is the install time/cost...because this happened so late in the game, not a viable option.
 
If I agreed with someone every time they said they did something 20 times and it was accepted, I would agree with a lot more people....Usually it is "I have been doing it this way for 30 yrs"

This could be part of the problem:

How much does a Building Inspector make in Indianapolis, IN? The average Building Inspector salary in Indianapolis, IN is $54,848 as of May 28, 2020, but the range typically falls between $46,692 and $62,952.

I am right there with you on pay scale. I had a very difficult time trying to get folks to apply for jobs in Plan Review and Building/Fire Inspection at state. This was 10 years ago, but a base plan review position...$27K (PATHETIC). I tried to get salaries raised, more staff, etc. Got shot down by the state capitol folks every time. Part of the reason I am no longer there. Got tired of putting my common sense on the shelf every day I walked in.
:(:mad::confused:
 
Updated today. Contractor is moving forward to install two new doors for now. Each one will provide access to the office space from the corridor outside of the elevator lobby. They are removing the maglock for now and may want me to pursue a variance. I have already told them I don't know how the commission will vote...but it would be interesting. In the meantime we have requested a formal interpretation from the State Building Commissioner to put an end to this issue. This will affect more than just our office / projects. I figure if we get this formally addressed, we can put this to bed once and for all. Also, hopefully we will move forward sometime soon to adopt a new code. I am praying we will look at the '21 codes and adopt them by '23. We are a very slow moving state.


There is problem with the black and white.

Code says provide access.


And variance is not in the code and should not be allowed.

I live by some one else’s stated motto, Don’t be live at five!!!!

Or live in court, with a dead body picture.
 
I also thought about introducing a Boon Edam Circlelock and Tourlock combo that I have put in many locations as well. Problem with them is the install time/cost...because this happened so late in the game, not a viable option.

Those would have been nice. I'm partial to their optical turnstiles myself which are not as physically imposing as the Circlelock and Tourlock but they do have tailgating detection and may be an easier retrofit but they probably won't do for your client as someone with decent parkour skills can go over them. Parkour! LOL.

It's good to see you are making progress on this and do share what the formal interpretation is with us here for our information. Thank you.
 
Another off-topic: About 20 years ago, I did a property condition assessment of an office building in a southwestern city. One floor was occupied by (I'm being deliberately vague here) a security branch of the federal government, and they would not let me into their offices. I went to inspect the stairwell, and their means of egress door into the stairwell had a padlock and hasp - - locked from the outside! I wrote this up as a dangerous code violation, since it would be impossible for those occupants to egress unless the fire department busted off the padlock. In response, I was told that this had already been discussed with the local building and fire officials, and that the federal government had asserted jurisdiction on this life-safety issue.
 
We used to have our office located inside a bank building that had this same setup at their entrance lobby. One weekend my business partner showed up with his 10-year-old son in tow to drop off a document, and he realized he forgot his FOB.

His 10 year-old son said "no problem!", grabbed a manila envelope from his dad's hand, stuck it partway through the narrow gap at frameless glass door jamb, and waved it up and down a couple of times. Bingo! The interior occupancy sensor unlocked the maglock and let them right in.

My partner said he was simultaneously both impressed with and worried about his son's devious mind.

His son grew up and is now an officer in the military.

Yes and I had a similar requirement for a highrise with 2 tenants, one with a Black Ops use requiring similar security. Only out was if it could be shown that the requirement was a matter of national security, it was.
 
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