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Duplex renovation and addition

M

MAGB

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Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
29
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
I have a client whose has requested our services after receiving a stop work order for non-permitted work. They own a pair of duplexes and have remodeled the interiors and added a couple bedrooms on to back sides. The buildings are wood frame with a shallow crawl space below. The existing unit separation wall would not meet code for Continuity. I think if they do not touch this wall it could remain. Unfortunately, they chose to insulate and replace the drywall on this wall, does it now need to meet code for continuity? Does anyone have suggestions on how to back into a detail for this? There is no existing foundation below the existing unit separation wall. The wall terminates at the top of the wood framed deck and unfortunately also has a jog in it which crosses the floor joists. We will be on IRC 2024. Thank You!
 
For just the insulation and drywall, I would say no the lack of continuity through the crawl space is not an issue. It might be an issue for other reasons but I am not familiar with the specifics of the situation.
 
Thank you for your reply!

The owner modified the separation wall a bit, but we are considering suggesting they restore it to its original condition to avoid the continuity issue. My concern was that it be too late for that suggestion. They removed the ceiling adjacent to the unit separation wall to create a vaulted ceiling, and then put in new drywall on the wall and higher ceiling. They also made a modification to shift a small section of the wall, but that too could be restored. I am trying not to open a can of worms... but, they did a bunch of work to muddy the waters of existing conditions.
 
MAGB said:
Thank you for your reply!

The owner modified the separation wall a bit, but we are considering suggesting they restore it to its original condition to avoid the continuity issue. My concern was that it be too late for that suggestion. They removed the ceiling adjacent to the unit separation wall to create a vaulted ceiling, and then put in new drywall on the wall and higher ceiling. They also made a modification to shift a small section of the wall, but that too could be restored. I am trying not to open a can of worms... but, they did a bunch of work to muddy the waters of existing conditions.
Click to expand...
There ya go with specifics.. They modified the wall. A ceiling was removed to create a vaulted space. Bedroom additions were planted on the buildings. There is probably more to the scope. The continuity of the separation wall should be the least of their problems. And be assured that the separation wall will land on a foundation.
 
I deal with this sorta crap way the hell too often. Then we're blamed for "making things unaffordable."

Sometime next week, I have to go to a building and discuss with the owner what will be removed from the finished product after the contractor decided that the order to stop working didn't mean anything.

Stupid costs money.
 
The penalty for commencing work without plan review and a permit in hand is learning.

The lesson is if the proposed work had been reviewed and permitted, the actual scope of work would have been defined and rework should not be necessary, or the scope could have be scaled back to a point that would not trigger additional remedial work on the existing wall.
 
Removing and replacing generally does not drive an upgrade to fire ratings....But without a whole bunch of specifics, and pictures, and plans, you are at the mercy of the building department...
 
MAGB said:
Thank you for your reply!

The owner modified the separation wall a bit, but we are considering suggesting they restore it to its original condition to avoid the continuity issue. My concern was that it be too late for that suggestion.
Click to expand...

I would agree, if a fire separation wall did not originally comply, and was modified, I would not allow it to go back to being non-compliant in my jurisdiction. Dwellings need to be separated, and I would not give on that point.

The crawlspace part sucks, if nothing much changed down there, I (as the building official) would be open to negotiating something easier than adding a foundation - if we achieved some level of fire blocking between the two sides, and knowing that fire does not burn downward, I could be make a deal that I was comfortable with. Also depends how tall the crawlspace is - if it's tall enough to kneel with your back straight, I would be much more likely to enforce 1-hour separation.

At the roof line where it crosses joists, keep in mind that in 2021 codes and newer, you can do 5/8" drywall on the ceiling and just a draft stop in the attic. If the ceilings are already drywalled with 1/2", adding a layer, even a thinner layer, may make the inspectors happy.

That kind of deal-making is entirely up to the building official, he may not have time to make deals because he doesn't have enough staff, or he may not be willing to go to the effort if the owners are serial offenders. Really depends on the local culture.
 
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