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1008.1.9.3 Locks and latches question

C

cda

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Heard this one today so thought I would cast it to see what comes up.

Say you have a multi tenant "B" building.

Doors to each tenant are non rated.

Would you allow a dead bolt key lock on the each business entry door meeting 1008.1.9.3 Locks and latches??? And you walk down a corridor to access each business

1008.1.9.3 Locks and latches. Approved locks and latches shall be permitted to prevent operation of doors where any of the following exists:

1. Places of detention or restraint.

2. In buildings in occupancy Group A having an occupant load of 300 or less, Groups B, F, M and S, and in places of religious worship, the main exterior door or doors are permitted to be equipped with key-operated locking devices from the egress side provided:

2.1. The locking device is readily distinguishable as locked;

2.2. A readily visible durable sign is posted on the egress side on or adjacent to the door stating: THIS DOOR TO REMAIN UNLOCKED WHEN BUILDING IS OCCUPIED. The sign shall be in letters 1 inch (25 mm) high on a contrasting background; and

2.3. The use of the key-operated locking device is revocable by the building official for due cause.

3. Where egress doors are used in pairs, approved automatic flush bolts shall be permitted to be used, provided that the door leaf having the automatic flush bolts has no doorknob or surface-mounted hardware.

4. Doors from individual dwelling or sleeping units of Group R occupancies having an occupant load of 10 or less are permitted to be equipped with a night latch, dead bolt or security chain, provided such devices are openable from the inside without the use of a key or tool.

5. Fire doors after the minimum elevated temperature has disabled the unlatching mechanism in accordance with listed fire door test procedures.
 
cda said:
Heard this one today so thought I would cast it to see what comes up.Say you have a multi tenant "B" building.

Doors to each tenant are non rated.

Would you allow a dead bolt key lock on the each business entry door meeting 1008.1.9.3 Locks and latches??? And you walk down a corridor to access each business

1008.1.9.3 Locks and latches. Approved locks and latches shall be permitted to prevent operation of doors where any of the following exists:

1. Places of detention or restraint.

2. In buildings in occupancy Group A having an occupant load of 300 or less, Groups B, F, M and S, and in places of religious worship, the main exterior door or doors are permitted to be equipped with key-operated locking devices from the egress side provided:

2.1. The locking device is readily distinguishable as locked;

2.2. A readily visible durable sign is posted on the egress side on or adjacent to the door stating: THIS DOOR TO REMAIN UNLOCKED WHEN BUILDING IS OCCUPIED. The sign shall be in letters 1 inch (25 mm) high on a contrasting background; and

2.3. The use of the key-operated locking device is revocable by the building official for due cause.

3. Where egress doors are used in pairs, approved automatic flush bolts shall be permitted to be used, provided that the door leaf having the automatic flush bolts has no doorknob or surface-mounted hardware.

4. Doors from individual dwelling or sleeping units of Group R occupancies having an occupant load of 10 or less are permitted to be equipped with a night latch, dead bolt or security chain, provided such devices are openable from the inside without the use of a key or tool.

5. Fire doors after the minimum elevated temperature has disabled the unlatching mechanism in accordance with listed fire door test procedures.
Click to expand...
It appears to meet the requirements of #2 of this section.
 
well there is one ahj that is not calling the interior entry door, to a business, off a corridor as a "main entranace"

and requireing the "2.1" indicator on the outside, corridor side, of the door, with a blank on the inside
 
cda said:
well there is one ahj that is not calling the interior entry door, to a business, off a corridor as a "main entranace"and requireing the "2.1" indicator on the outside, corridor side, of the door, with a blank on the inside
Click to expand...
Does the corridor become a dead end scenario?
 
I beg to differ with my esteemd colleague from the Great Northwest. Condition # 2 is specific to main exterior doors, not to interior doors to individual businesses.

The intent is to permit securing the main entrance while allowing, let's say, the night cleaning crew to be inside while the facility is closed for business.

It doesn't say what you think it says... Go back and read it and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time. (C. Beck)
 
No just trying to keep it as simple of an example as possible.

As I take it, They are saying the only main entrance is into the building .

The multi tenant businesses, I take it cannot use the "

Main entrance" provisions for the say single entry door into their lease space.
 
Virtually every retail mall has this condition at each tenant area. Irregardless of an "exterior" condition. We also use this in B occupancies within multi tenant floors when requested by the tenant.
 
JPohling said:
Virtually every retail mall has this condition at each tenant area. Irregardless of an "exterior" condition. We also use this in B occupancies within multi tenant floors when requested by the tenant.
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Same here. This not a building main exterior door situation. JB some additional reading glasses may serve you well.
 
Our esteemed colleague from the empire state is correct. The acceptance for sub-section 2 is for an exterior door or doors....period. The example given in the OP would not permit a locking device on the egress side permitted by remaining sub-sections.
 
JPohling and Kilitact, the Code is clear. The exception is for 'main exterior' doors. Individual mall tenants do not keep their entry doors locked while open for business (at least not in NYS...). But when the mall closes at the end of the day, the main exterior doors leading from the main mall to the outdoors can be locked (secured).

cda - 'Main entrance' is not defined I'll agree. But 'main exterior door' needs no definition beyond what the context and common useage imply. (I believe earlier versions of the IBC used 'main entrance' here, hence the problem).
 
JBI said:
JPohling and Kilitact, the Code is clear. The exception is for 'main exterior' doors. Individual mall tenants do not keep their entry doors locked while open for business (at least not in NYS...). But when the mall closes at the end of the day, the main exterior doors leading from the main mall to the outdoors can be locked (secured). cda - 'Main entrance' is not defined I'll agree. But 'main exterior door' needs no definition beyond what the context and common useage imply. (I believe earlier versions of the IBC used 'main entrance' here, hence the problem).
Click to expand...
WOW!!!!

guess I need to read the code book, have not noticed that till you pointed it out!!

And sad have been under the 03 and 09 forever.

never mind, interor doors need to meet the other provisons of IBC for locking.
 
It doesn’t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn’t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don’t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

Copyright 2006, Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle WA.

THE key to successful Code Enforcement, IMHO.
 
JBI said:
JPohling and Kilitact, the Code is clear. The exception is for 'main exterior' doors. Individual mall tenants do not keep their entry doors locked while open for business (at least not in NYS...). But when the mall closes at the end of the day, the main exterior doors leading from the main mall to the outdoors can be locked (secured). cda - 'Main entrance' is not defined I'll agree. But 'main exterior door' needs no definition beyond what the context and common useage imply. (I believe earlier versions of the IBC used 'main entrance' here, hence the problem).
Click to expand...
JBI, again I see that the code section clearly states "exterior". If a tenant space is within the building and they hours of business that differs from the other tenants they are permitted to secure their doors. During business hours a sign must be posted in accordance with the exception 2.2. What your stating is that the code says business's can't secure their place of business?
 
Kilitact, No I'm not. I'm stating that they cannot apply exception 2 or its' subsections to an interior door. They can most certainly secure their own space when they are not open to the public. Exit doors cannot be locked to prevent egress, they can always be locked to prevent ingress.
 
I think (believe it or not) what we are discussing or debating is the use of a seperate deadbolt or similar device. And if you can't meet exception 2 because it is an interior door, then you are stuck with a one motion egress type device per....

1008.1.9.5 Unlatching.

The unlatching of any door or leaf shall not require more than one operation.

Or some other alternative that meets some other code exception....
 
If a tenant space is within the building and they hours of business that differs from the other tenants they are permitted to secure their doors.
Click to expand...
Could you please provide that information? Is it in the IBC Commentary since I don't have that but I do have 101 Handbook and it has never appeared in that document.
 
LGreene said:
Are we talking about a deadbolt that requires a key on the egress side? Or a deadbolt with a thumbturn? Is the deadbolt the only locking device or is there another latch?
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The ahj in question I am being told

Is requiring a keyed dead bolt on the exterior side

With open/ close indicator on the exterior side

And blanked on the inside/egress side
 
^^ so in that case you could never secure the store while after hours. No restocking or anything? Never gonna happen
 
IMO, the locks could not be key-operated from the egress side (these are not the main exterior door(s)), or blank on the egress side, but you could have a deadbolt if all of the following were true:

a) The door is not serving an Assembly or Educational occupancy with an occupant load that would require panic hardware.

b) The deadbolt is the only locking/latching device on the door, so only one operation is required to release the latch(bolt).

c) The deadbolt is mounted between 34" and 48" AFF.

d) The deadbolt can be operated from the egress side without a key, tool, special knowledge or effort (ie. it has a thumbturn).

e) The thumbturn can be turned without tight grasping, tight pinching or twisting of the wrist (with 5 pounds of force or less if the prevailing code requires it).

f) The doors are not fire-rated, which would require positive latching.

Did I forget anything?
 
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