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13R Open Garage

Francis Vineyard

Francis Vineyard

Registered User
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
3,105
Location
Charlottesville, VA
2006 IBC

Non-separated mixed occupancy

R-2; 3 story type 5A over open garage type 2B with 1 hr. separation

No height and area increase

Does the garage get 13R coverage?

NFPA13R-07; 6.8.2 13R seems require compartmentalization (enclosure) but reading A.1.1 seems to say 13R. Appreciate explanations and thanks in advance.
 
are you saying that you have a R-2 and a seperate garage parking area, or the garage is incorporated into the R-2 as individual garages or similar??

seems like if you have a R you sprinkle the entire building
 
Section 903.2.7 (2006 IBC): An automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3 shall be provided throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area.

Whether separated or not, if it contains a Group R, the building must be sprinklered throughout.

Question: You state "Non-separated mixed occupancy," yet you indicate a 1-hr separation.

Also, you cannot have two construction types in a single building unless separated by a fire wall or utilizing Sections 509.2 or 509.4.

If using Section 509.2, that requires a 3-hour horizontal assembly between the basement/first story and the stories above; then they would be considered "separate and distinct buildings" and the S-2 would not need to be sprinklered.

If using Section 509.4, then a 2-hour separation is required and the parking garage needs to be of Type I construction. The separation can be reduced to 1-hour, but then the entire building needs to be sprinklered throughout per Table 508.3.3.
 
brudgers, on the contrary. Section 509.2 indicates that the 3-hour horizontal assembly creates separate buildings.

Now, it may be debatable if the separate buildings apply to sprinkler protection. Since sprinkler protection is not included in the list of items in Section 509.2, it could be justified that the separation is not for the purpose of determining if a sprinkler is installed throughout a building, thus, a sprinkler system would be required in the S-2.

However, it could equally be justified that a sprinkler system is not required in the S-2, since the horizontal assembly under this section also determines the continuity of fire walls, which is used to create separate buildings under the code, and thus the extent of sprinkler systems for buildings considered to be sprinklered throughout.

This, in my opinion, would be up to the interpretation by the building official.
 
RLGA said:
brudgers, on the contrary. Section 509.2 indicates that the 3-hour horizontal assembly creates separate buildings.
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.

509.2 states that portions "of a building shall be considered...for the purposes of".

Compare to "considered a separate building" with no limitations or exceptions in 705 for firewalls.

509.2 does not allow separate consideration with regard to sprinklers, standpipes, alarms, construction type, etc.

[Edit] See Mark?
 
Somewhere in the achieves for the old BB was an article by ICC indicating that a 13 system could be installed in the bottom of the pedestal and a 13R could be used above. The rather interesting part is that I beleive that NFPA has also published a paper that indicated the same...... I think it was also referenced in the old BB. However, since I am no longer an ICC memebr, can somebody else look in the archieves under Builder bob and see if they can find the links?
 
RLGA said:
brudgers: 509.2 does allow separate consideration for construction type.
Click to expand...
...occupant load, structural continuity, accessibility, energy efficiency, travel distance.....
 
As usual my question was inaccurately pose and I need to further explain; The garage is included in the Group R fire area as a Non-Separated Mixed Occupancy and would therefor required to be NFPA 13R. 903.3.1.2 commentary required system shall be permitted to be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13R invites “It must be noted that although the building would be considered sprinklered throughout in accordance with NFPA 13R, not all of the code sprinkler alternatives could be applied. Any alternative that requires the installation of an NFPA 13 system would not be applicable if a portion of the building utilizes an NFPA 13R system." Not quite sure of all the possibilties meant by this statement; steered me to reading NFPA 13R 6.8.2.2; does 13R still work in an open garage?

"6.8.3.2 Garages that are accessible by people from more than one dwelling unit, and are not covered by 6.8.3.1 shall be considered part of the building and shall be protected in accordance with 6.8.2. Garage doors shall not be considered obstructions and shall be permitted to be ignored for placement and calculation of sprinklers.

6.8.2* Design Criteria – Outside Dwelling Unit.

6.8.2.1 For areas outside the dwelling unit, the design discharge and design area criteria shall comply with NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems, unless permitted by 6.8.2.2 and 6.8.2.3.

6.8.2.2 The system demand of areas outside the dwelling unit shall be permitted to be limited to the number of sprinklers in the compartmented area but shall not be greater than the demand for a total of four sprinklers where all of the following conditions are met:

(1) The area is compartmented into areas of 500 sq. ft. or less by 30-minute fire-rated construction.

(2) The area is protected by quick-response or residential sprinklers not exceeding 130 sq. ft. per sprinkler for ordinary hazard, 225 sq. ft. for light hazard, or the allowable coverage of the sprinkler listing.

(3) Openings have a lintel at least 8 in. in depth.

(4) The total area of openings does not exceed 50 sq. ft. for each compartment.

(5) Discharge densities are in accordance with NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems."

Also I thought somewhere in the IBC that supersedes some NFPA sprinkler requirements?
 
Builder Bob said:
Fire Sprinkler Article Article from the fire sprinkler organization - read it slowly but it reinforces the abiltiy to have a 13 system in the pedestal with 13 R above.

However, I believe several factors come into play - height of building, construction of the pedestal (3 hrs to qualify as a seperate and distinct building)
Click to expand...
"Brown represents the interests of AFSA and its members in the building codes."

You probably bought dealer applied undercoating on your last new car, too.

 
Another discussion board exerpts from stookeyfpe

stookeyfpe (Specifier/Regul) 26 Jan 07 11:18

Is the parking at grade or below grade? What is the construction type? Where is this located because if you are in the US, I can review the International Building Code. Generally parking garages in the IBC are treated as a Group S-2 occupancy and require a 3 hour fire barrier between garage and the residential dwellings.The 06 IBC has new requirements for "pedestal" construction that would allow one to use NFPA 13R at a level above the grade plane.

stookeyfpe (Specifier/Regul) 27 Jan 07 16:02

Smdenton:Being in Georgia the applicable code is the 2000 IBC. However, since GA is going through the adoption process, I'll focus on the 06 IBC.And to answer the easy question, the provisions for what some call "pedestal construction" are found in section IBC 509. Your design conditions most closely fit IBC section 509.2, although I'm not sure how the design professional got out of the Type I construction, even if sprinklered.If the below grade parking can be treated as an open parking garage, then it is classified as a Group S-2 open parking garage. If it is not open, it is classified as a enclosed parking garage. IBC section 903.2.9 requires sprinkler protection throughout the building. This portion of the system would be designed in accordance with NFPA 13 (see IBC 903.3.1.1).I will assumne the parking garage is enclosed for the purpose of the analysis.First floor: Group M/S/B occupancy is the most plausible occupancy classification. This would be designed in accordance with NFPA 13 for based on the hazard classification.Floors 2 - 5: You are correct - the height limitation of NFPA 13R has been exceeded. So the residential dwelling compartment and corridor requirements of NFPA 13 would apply, as well as the provisions for attic sprinklers.
 
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