• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

2009 definition change

C

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,963
Location
Basement
FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above

anyone have reference to the reasoning behind the definition change.

Anyone have a link to the code hearing documents showing why
 
I think it may have been that there were some people that thought that if you had a roof and no walls you did not have a fire area.....as I believe might not be crystal clear in our 2003.....If you could also post the previous language it would be easier to compare....
 
FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded

by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls, or fire-resistance-

rated horizontal assemblies of a building.

it might be to match the definition of building area:::

from 2003 IBC

AREA, BUILDING. The area included within surrounding

exterior walls (or exterior walls and fire walls) exclusive of vent

shafts and courts. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas

are included within the horizon tal projection of the roof or

floor above.
 
hlfireinspector said:
My question is why did they remove "fire-resistance-rated" from horizontal assemblies?
Click to expand...
Maybe they found it redundant as the horizontal rated assembly would have to be a fire barrier(to seperate fire areas)....unless it were an exterior element rated for some other reason....if that makes any sense...
 
FS7-06/07

Proponent: Greg Rogers, Kitsap Fire District 7, representing ICC Joint Fire Service Review Committee

Revise definition as follows:

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or fire resistance-rated horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.

Reason: Sprinkler and fire alarm requirements in Chapter 9 of the IBC and IFC are based on the square footage or occupant load of a fire area. It is not clear from the definition of a fire area that building areas without surrounding walls are included in the fire area. This concept is clear in the definition of building area found in IBC 502.1, “Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above”. This was confirmed by IFC Interpretation No. 25-05, dated 09-12-05.

2006/2007 Code Development Cycle
 
rogerpa said:
FS7-06/07Proponent: Greg Rogers, Kitsap Fire District 7, representing ICC Joint Fire Service Review Committee

Revise definition as follows:

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or fire resistance-rated horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.

Reason: Sprinkler and fire alarm requirements in Chapter 9 of the IBC and IFC are based on the square footage or occupant load of a fire area. It is not clear from the definition of a fire area that building areas without surrounding walls are included in the fire area. This concept is clear in the definition of building area found in IBC 502.1, “Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above”. This was confirmed by IFC Interpretation No. 25-05, dated 09-12-05.

2006/2007 Code Development Cycle
Click to expand...
thanks

and we are not talking about a building with say just foour foot eaves around it?

more if say the second floor projects over an open area of the first floor

or say they have a 1000 sq ft canopy attached to the building, say a M occupancy
 
hlfireinspector

My question is why did they remove "fire-resistance-rated" from horizontal assemblies?
Click to expand...

FS37–06/07

402.4.6, 402.7.1, 403.2, [F]404.3, 410.5.1, 410.5.2, [F]415.6.1.2, [F]415.6.2.2, [F]415.6.3.4.1,

[F]415.6.3.5.2, [F]415.7.1, [F]415.7.3, [F]415.8.2.2, 415.8.5.2.1, 415.8.5.2.2, [F]416.2, [F]418.4,

[F]418.5, [F]418.6, 706.3.3, 706.3.9, Table 706.3.9, 707.11, 707.13.3, 707.13.4, 712.3, 901.7,

903.2, [F]909.11 (IMC 513.11 & IFC 909.11), 909.20.2, 909.20.6.1, [F]910.3.4, [F]910.4.4, 1021.3

(IFC 1021.3), 1022.2 (IFC 1022.2) 3006.4, 3104.5, 3410.6.16.1 (IEBC 1301.6.16.1)

Proponent: Philip Brazil, P.E, Reid Middleton, Inc., representing himself

Reason: Code change proposal FS2-04/05 (AMPC1) changed the concept of a fire barrier from being a fire containment assembly to begin a component of a fire containment assembly. This was accomplished by changing the definition of fire barrier from begin a vertical or horizontal assembly to being a wall assembly and by deleting the provisions for horizontal fire barriers. The proposal made the necessary revisions to several sections of the IBC for consistency with the change in concept (i.e., Sections 403.10.1, 404.5, 414.2.1, 508.2.2.1, 508.3.3.4.1, 706.3.5, 706.3.7, 706.3.9, 707.5, 911.1 and 1020.1). The proposal, however, did not make the necessary revisions to other sections of the IBC, which are needed in order for the concept to be fully incorporated into the provisions of the IBC. The purpose of this proposal is to make the necessary revisions to the provisions in those code sections.
 
I recently had a problem with this. I did a plan review for a self supporting pavillion for a break area. It was just a roof but I wasn't sure if it was a projection of the roof. It was right against a F1 building but not atached. I decided it wasn't a projection of the roof, so it wasn't a fire area. How would you deal with it?
 
hlfireinspector, because the definition of horizontal assembly. It is already defined as fire-resistance-rated.

HORIZONTAL ASSEMBLY. A fire-resistance-rated floor

or roof assembly of materials designed to restrict the spread of

fire in which continuity is maintained.
 
Rick18071 said:
I recently had a problem with this. I did a plan review for a self supporting pavillion for a break area. It was just a roof but I wasn't sure if it was a projection of the roof. It was right against a F1 building but not atached. I decided it wasn't a projection of the roof, so it wasn't a fire area. How would you deal with it?
Click to expand...
was it acutally attached to the building? if no not part of the building

also, I would look at what are they doing under it, and are there any openings into the building from underneath it.
 
To me...if you are under a roof...you are in a fire area....with limited exceptions of course...

Rick18071 said:
I recently had a problem with this. I did a plan review for a self supporting pavillion for a break area. It was just a roof but I wasn't sure if it was a projection of the roof. It was right against a F1 building but not atached. I decided it wasn't a projection of the roof, so it wasn't a fire area. How would you deal with it?
Click to expand...
 
well that is where this question came from

If you have a 5000 sq ft building and attached a 2000 sq ft canopy, no shared roof and no fire wall between them

do you have a 5000 sq ft building or a 7000 sq ft building

I say 7000
 
Not attached but against to F1 building. All wood. Steel roof. 600 sq ft. Fits definiton of building but not fire area. But it is a smoking area. F1 building has block walls. 2 doors go out to it. They are calling it an accessory to the F1. Should I call it a seprate building?
 
Rick18071 said:
Not attached but against to F1 building. All wood. Steel roof. 600 sq ft. Fits definiton of building but not fire area. But it is a smoking area. F1 building has block walls. 2 doors go out to it. They are calling it an accessory to the F1. Should I call it a seprate building?
Click to expand...
to the two touch?

yes you have a fire area/ building area

what code edtion are you using?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top