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32" grounding electrodes, but we used three of them

F

Flexo

Registered User
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
48
Location
Cochise County Arizona
It has been eight years since I had this experience the first time. Today, it reared its ugly head again.
A local electrician runs into shallow bedrock, so he cuts his grounding electrodes into sections and proceeds to pound these into a small area. (9" circle) His auxiliary electrode cluster is 6' away. I will not approve this and the electrician was livid. He assert that every other municipality approves this unorthodox grounding.
 
CEC:
250.53(G) Rod and Pipe Electrodes.
The electrode shall be installed such that at least 2.44 m (8 ft) of length is in contact with the soil. It shall be driven to a depth of not less than 2.44 m (8 ft) except that, where rock bottom is encountered, the electrode shall be driven at an oblique angle not to exceed 45 degrees from the vertical or, where rock bottom is encountered at an angle up to 45 degrees, the electrode shall be permitted to be buried in a trench that is at least 750 mm (30 in.) deep. The upper end of the electrode shall be flush with or below ground level unless the aboveground end and the grounding electrode conductor attachment are protected against physical damage as specified in 250.10.
 
Flexo … turn the tables on him … ask him to show you the paragraph that allows it.
 
I agree with the others, the code gives him all the options he needs to be compliant, and none of them are what he installed.

Pound sand sparky, or at least another ground rod, in one piece. ;)
 
jar546 said:
We would never accept a letter from an engineer that signs of on an installation that is not code compliant.
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Equivalent using accepted engineering practices. I think building officials do that all the time. I suspect ICE may be right on this one that you won't find one, at least not one that will do it for less than other options.

Was curious what you do when bedrock is less than 30". I watched a house built all above ground, as the ground was bedrock, solid, for a long ways. Cheap foundation, just no electricity if you guys are the officials.
 
bill1952 said:
Equivalent using accepted engineering practices. I think building officials do that all the time. I suspect ICE may be right on this one that you won't find one, at least not one that will do it for less than other options.

Was curious what you do when bedrock is less than 30". I watched a house built all above ground, as the ground was bedrock, solid, for a long ways. Cheap foundation, just no electricity if you guys are the officials.
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Equivalent using accepted engineering practices would require testing since soil, rock conditions will vary greatly. First off, unless he can prove 25Ohms or less he is putting in a second rod anyway, not just one. If this was an addition or new construction then they missed the opportunity to install a concrete encased electrode CEE. What about a grounding ring? What about plate electrodes? Since there are multiple options for grounding electrodes, there is no way we would give this guy a pass on this regardless of how loud he whines. He had options and was lazy and non-compliant.
 
bill1952 said:
I suspect ICE may be right on this one that you won't find one,
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Depends on how much his bar tab is. ;)
Back in the old SBCCI days I remember an instructor told us if an engineer stamped it and I have doubts about it then just ask them for the signed and sealed design calculations they used and watch the design change. He was correct. The lesson was we do not have to be an engineer to question a design/drawing stamped by an engineer. Just ask for the documentation they used in their design and then they will provide it or actually do the work for which they were paid to do and then provide it.
 
Thanks guys, I'm quite sure that my decision is correct but wanted some backup. When this happened in 2014 I had just started inspecting and this electrician visited all my supervisors and contacted City Council trying to get me fired for enforcing the code. This time if he tries I have passed residential and commercial inspector certification and I have this forum thread to back me up. Anyone searching the internet, regarding this issue can find this thread in the future.
 
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