TheVictim
Registered User
Does anyone have any idea about how to address an issue and violation like that when no one in the state of Washington has authority over the city to correct or discipline them?
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6 foot high Concrete block wall without embedded foundation or footing
jar546
Forum Coordinator
The devil is in the details. Please elaborate.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Walls less than 6 feet are exempt form permits. It is a planning and civil matter.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Unless you are in the HVHZ, High Velocity Hurricane Zone, then, of course, they do require a permit.
fatboy
Administrator
That is how it is in my neck of the woods.
Is it acting as a retaining wall for landscaping?
That would change it code wise, but if you have no enforcing authority in your jurisdiction, it would be a civil matter.
TheVictim
Registered User
The 6 foot concrete wall was built on the property line in 2010. The owner called it a retaining wall when I asked what he was doing. That required a 5 foot set back and a footing according to the city inspector I talked to at that time. The neighbor changed it to a fence and the city said there are no requirements for fences. That is a clear violation of building code and seismic standards to build a 6 foot concrete wall on top the ground as I understand it. Exemption from a permit says no higher than 4 feet measured from the bottom of the footing. I thought they just made a silly mistake that would eventually be corrected.
I asked how much dirt had to be piled against it since he originally called it a retaining wall. The Inspector said 2 feet. The owner built a daylight basement house on flat ground. His garage floor is about 8 feet above the original grade. He needed a ramp to drive into the garage. In 2014, he piled about 4.5 feet of dirt along the wall as he built his driveway.
I called the city and the original inspector was gone. The retaining wall definition changed to 4 feet of fill from 2 about that time. The city made all kinds of silly excuses not to enforce the code. It is landscaping dirt so it doesn’t count. They forgot to consider the lateral forces on the wall. The code says 4 feet of unopposed fill makes it a retaining wall requiring a 1.5 safety factor. I will have to admit since the wall has no safety factor, 1.5 x 0 = 0, eh?
The magnitude 9 + Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake is overdue Washington, Oregon and southern British Columbia. The April 2015 Nepal 7.8 earthquake showing lots of big rocks and concrete buildings being disrupted motivated me to do something about the wall while I still could. A few emails were exchanged with the city as they continued to ignore the violations. I finally hired a structural engineer to evaluate the wall. He said it did not meet wind load or seismic standards. The city had no choice but to issue a correction.
The design they approved required a ½ cubic yard concrete block to be poured every 8 feet along the 165 foot long wall as a counter balance to keep it from falling towards us. I asked the engineer about that and he told me the owner did not care if it fell on his property. That is a concern because he has a 1,000 gallon propane tank 10 feet from the wall. It will be rolling around in an earthquake. Peak ground accelerations are expected to be as high as 1.25 times the force of gravity. OSU’s website says they can move a vehicle 100 yards in 5 seconds. That is 50 mph. There is no code in Washington to require the large propane tanks to be secured. They are top heavy sitting on top the ground waiting for trouble. Their safety devices are prone to failure when they are out of position. Fire is the number one secondary hazard in an earthquake. Propane is heavier than air, pools in low areas and is easily trapped in the corral that encloses the tank on 3 sides formed by the wall, the house and rising grade on the far side. If the wall falls, the debris field will most likely still retain propane in the corral. The natural air currents blow into the corral at least 90% of the time. A static spark generated by one’s clothing can ignite propane. If this isn’t a fire code violation, it must be domestic terrorism!
Anyway, I got side tracked on propane. The seismic upgrade required 108 - 5/8” rebar to be drilled and epoxied 6 inches deep into the existing concrete. I was outdoors most of the time they were working on the “corrections”. I heard them digging but I did not hear a single hole drilled into the concrete. This is long enough. I will not go into what I consider to be criminal violations in the approval of the correction process.
There is no oversight for cities interpreting the codes to be nonexistent in this state. I have contacted every possible government entity in this state. Attorneys say there is no cause for action without property loss, serious injury or fatality. Of course the codes say their purpose is to protect the public’s safety and property. I have contacted the U.S. Department of Justice but have not received any response.
Anyone have any ideas how to get this resolved?
I asked how much dirt had to be piled against it since he originally called it a retaining wall. The Inspector said 2 feet. The owner built a daylight basement house on flat ground. His garage floor is about 8 feet above the original grade. He needed a ramp to drive into the garage. In 2014, he piled about 4.5 feet of dirt along the wall as he built his driveway.
I called the city and the original inspector was gone. The retaining wall definition changed to 4 feet of fill from 2 about that time. The city made all kinds of silly excuses not to enforce the code. It is landscaping dirt so it doesn’t count. They forgot to consider the lateral forces on the wall. The code says 4 feet of unopposed fill makes it a retaining wall requiring a 1.5 safety factor. I will have to admit since the wall has no safety factor, 1.5 x 0 = 0, eh?
The magnitude 9 + Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake is overdue Washington, Oregon and southern British Columbia. The April 2015 Nepal 7.8 earthquake showing lots of big rocks and concrete buildings being disrupted motivated me to do something about the wall while I still could. A few emails were exchanged with the city as they continued to ignore the violations. I finally hired a structural engineer to evaluate the wall. He said it did not meet wind load or seismic standards. The city had no choice but to issue a correction.
The design they approved required a ½ cubic yard concrete block to be poured every 8 feet along the 165 foot long wall as a counter balance to keep it from falling towards us. I asked the engineer about that and he told me the owner did not care if it fell on his property. That is a concern because he has a 1,000 gallon propane tank 10 feet from the wall. It will be rolling around in an earthquake. Peak ground accelerations are expected to be as high as 1.25 times the force of gravity. OSU’s website says they can move a vehicle 100 yards in 5 seconds. That is 50 mph. There is no code in Washington to require the large propane tanks to be secured. They are top heavy sitting on top the ground waiting for trouble. Their safety devices are prone to failure when they are out of position. Fire is the number one secondary hazard in an earthquake. Propane is heavier than air, pools in low areas and is easily trapped in the corral that encloses the tank on 3 sides formed by the wall, the house and rising grade on the far side. If the wall falls, the debris field will most likely still retain propane in the corral. The natural air currents blow into the corral at least 90% of the time. A static spark generated by one’s clothing can ignite propane. If this isn’t a fire code violation, it must be domestic terrorism!
Anyway, I got side tracked on propane. The seismic upgrade required 108 - 5/8” rebar to be drilled and epoxied 6 inches deep into the existing concrete. I was outdoors most of the time they were working on the “corrections”. I heard them digging but I did not hear a single hole drilled into the concrete. This is long enough. I will not go into what I consider to be criminal violations in the approval of the correction process.
There is no oversight for cities interpreting the codes to be nonexistent in this state. I have contacted every possible government entity in this state. Attorneys say there is no cause for action without property loss, serious injury or fatality. Of course the codes say their purpose is to protect the public’s safety and property. I have contacted the U.S. Department of Justice but have not received any response.
Anyone have any ideas how to get this resolved?
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Get your property officially surveyed. See if they had a zoning permit and if they handed in a survey before and after construction.
TheVictim
Registered User
Thank you for the responses and suggestions.
The wall is on the property line. When he originally called it a retaining wall in 2010 the building inspector said that required a 5' set back and a footing. There are no requirements for a fence 6 feet or less, so the owner changed it to a fence. After the house was finished, he used the end of the fence as an illegal retaining wall.
WA has a geological hazard law which states if the risks cannot be mitigated, the project cannot be built. Since it does not meet seismic standards, it is illegal to build a giant concrete domino on a residential lot. But it is up to the city to enforce the law. https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=365-190-120
Unfortunately, surveys are worthless. They are only an opinion. There are 3 datum points in the area and they do not agree. Additionally, all the properties are approximately 10 feet off east and west and about 5 feet off north and south. The road out front should be crossing the first 10 feet of my driveway according to one plat I reviewed. The owner pulled out the original corner state and put his concrete on top of it. He told me several times his property was at the eves of my house to 1 foot on to my property. The chain link fence installed about 1980 is the property line. The option to contest that location expired about 7 years before he bought the property.
Since this is obviously a very risky installation, I am hoping someone knows a way to address it that does not involve the city or state. I have exhausted those options and am currently trying to get the state legislature to pass some kind of oversight over rouge cities. Some legislators are trying to find a jurisdiction to claim authority. There are none. Changing the law to get oversight will probably never happen. I am looking for some federal authority that will not tolerate putting public safety at risk. Hopefully, someone knows an angle to pursue.
The wall is on the property line. When he originally called it a retaining wall in 2010 the building inspector said that required a 5' set back and a footing. There are no requirements for a fence 6 feet or less, so the owner changed it to a fence. After the house was finished, he used the end of the fence as an illegal retaining wall.
WA has a geological hazard law which states if the risks cannot be mitigated, the project cannot be built. Since it does not meet seismic standards, it is illegal to build a giant concrete domino on a residential lot. But it is up to the city to enforce the law. https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=365-190-120
Unfortunately, surveys are worthless. They are only an opinion. There are 3 datum points in the area and they do not agree. Additionally, all the properties are approximately 10 feet off east and west and about 5 feet off north and south. The road out front should be crossing the first 10 feet of my driveway according to one plat I reviewed. The owner pulled out the original corner state and put his concrete on top of it. He told me several times his property was at the eves of my house to 1 foot on to my property. The chain link fence installed about 1980 is the property line. The option to contest that location expired about 7 years before he bought the property.
Since this is obviously a very risky installation, I am hoping someone knows a way to address it that does not involve the city or state. I have exhausted those options and am currently trying to get the state legislature to pass some kind of oversight over rouge cities. Some legislators are trying to find a jurisdiction to claim authority. There are none. Changing the law to get oversight will probably never happen. I am looking for some federal authority that will not tolerate putting public safety at risk. Hopefully, someone knows an angle to pursue.
ICE
Oh Well
A fence......a retaining wall.......either way, a failure is not a life safety danger.
TheVictim
Registered User
If it was setting on a jobsite unsupported in WA state, Labor and Industries safety inspectors would shut down the job and start writing violations.
With peak ground accelerations expected to be as high as 1.25 times the force of gravity in the 9+ Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake, they can throw heavy objects in any direction, horizontal and vertical. In San Bernardo in 1971, in a 6.8 quake, a fire engine which weighs about 20 tons left a tire mark on a garage door 3 feet off the ground! The Cascadia will be over 1,000 times more powerful! The wall could easily be thrown into the house.
Having 32 tons of unstable concrete adjacent to 1,000 gallon propane tank is a bit risky. In an emergency first responders are advised to not get closer than 150 yards. There are 19 homes with about 50 people living in that radius including 19 children. The preferred evacuation radius of over a half mile.
At some point in the future, someone may get tired of looking at the ugly concrete. If they decide to do a proper job of planting a row of roses, it could easily be a fatal mistake. A rose bed starts with a hole 24” deep for compost and bone meal. The hole is 24” square. The rose spacing is 24 to 30”. Making a row of roses would be a 24” deep ditch 24” wide along the wall. 32 tons of concrete will collapse the ditch and fall over into it. Even if it was done a few at a time, the non-compacted soil will not support the 32 ton, 8 inch wide wall standing on the edge.
I measured a domino just for kicks. It has a 45% better base to height ration than the wall.
With peak ground accelerations expected to be as high as 1.25 times the force of gravity in the 9+ Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake, they can throw heavy objects in any direction, horizontal and vertical. In San Bernardo in 1971, in a 6.8 quake, a fire engine which weighs about 20 tons left a tire mark on a garage door 3 feet off the ground! The Cascadia will be over 1,000 times more powerful! The wall could easily be thrown into the house.
Having 32 tons of unstable concrete adjacent to 1,000 gallon propane tank is a bit risky. In an emergency first responders are advised to not get closer than 150 yards. There are 19 homes with about 50 people living in that radius including 19 children. The preferred evacuation radius of over a half mile.
At some point in the future, someone may get tired of looking at the ugly concrete. If they decide to do a proper job of planting a row of roses, it could easily be a fatal mistake. A rose bed starts with a hole 24” deep for compost and bone meal. The hole is 24” square. The rose spacing is 24 to 30”. Making a row of roses would be a 24” deep ditch 24” wide along the wall. 32 tons of concrete will collapse the ditch and fall over into it. Even if it was done a few at a time, the non-compacted soil will not support the 32 ton, 8 inch wide wall standing on the edge.
I measured a domino just for kicks. It has a 45% better base to height ration than the wall.
ICE
Oh Well
A survey before and after the construction of a fence is so rare as to be never.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
mark handler
SAWHORSE
We on this website cannot solve your problem
Contact a Washington State licensed Real Estate Lawyer
Boundary Fence Codes in Washington State: Sections 16.60.020, 16.60.030, and 16.60.050
Contact a Washington State licensed Real Estate Lawyer
Boundary Fence Codes in Washington State: Sections 16.60.020, 16.60.030, and 16.60.050
ICE
Oh Well
My bubble is a sphere. I have witnessed you state the two surveys before.....claiming that it gets done on every project. In my sphere nobody does that. Don't get me wrong, it happens on large commercial projects and odd shaped lots.....sometimes there is a dispute between owners.....but we (my AHJ) seldom require a survey. I've only needed that a half dozen times.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
jar546
Forum Coordinator
ICE
Oh Well
They just wish that they were.
ICE
Oh Well
That's $10,000.00 for naught. Perhaps the first survey serves a purpose but numbers two and three are telling me that nobody can read a tape measure.
And that third survey....what then? Oh you missed the mark....you're gonna have to do it over....here comes another $10K my way says the surveyor.
ADAguy
Registered User
"knowledge" is a tool for good & evil. are you planning on selling in the future (pre-quake)?
May have to disclose this (it could be seen as damages for reduction in your property value?
You also didn't indicate whether the CMU was only grouted or grouted and filled?
May have to disclose this (it could be seen as damages for reduction in your property value?
You also didn't indicate whether the CMU was only grouted or grouted and filled?
Find the survey that best supports your position, take them to court and make them prove otherwise. Note: make sure your survey meets all legal requirements first.
When we bought houses in Texas, every closing included a current survey that showed prop lines, structures, easements and fences.
When we bought houses in Texas, every closing included a current survey that showed prop lines, structures, easements and fences.
ADAguy
Registered User
I believe that is referred to as an ALTA title report?