A real cut-up

[ICE]

A contractor spoke with our office manager about a failed copper water pipe installation at an apartment complex. He brought a sample that showed that the pipe had not been reamed. I have two questions.The contractor stated that the hot water pipes will be replaced but the cold water pipes have not leaked and will not be replaced. When a talked with him, I was curious about that and he explained that hot water pipes always wear out faster than cold water pipes. What do you guys think about that?Question # two is do you ask them to cut out a sample on every job? Just commercial or residential also?Here is a picture from another thread on this topic:

View attachment 1907

I have required entire systems to be removed and replaced. When that happens I require that they save the removed fittings. That started when a contractor tried to reuse the fittings.Typically, when I write a correction to remove and replace anything, I am challenged all the way to the top. But not with this. So far they have simply done as they were told. Oh they didn't like it but there was no argument from them. It has happened less than a dozen times in my career and I would be willing to bet that those contractors will remember that for life.View attachment 1907

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[MASSDRIVER]

Honest, non-belligerent question.

Do you really have the authority to require someone to save the fittings? What if the contractor tells you pound sand? Can you fail the inspections if the fittings were just tossed or recycled?

Brent.

 

[ICE]

Honest, non-belligerent question. Do you really have the authority to require someone to save the fittings? What if the contractor tells you pound sand? Can you fail the inspections if the fittings were just tossed or recycled?

Brent.

That's a reasonable question. Just off hand I would say maybe.

"Trust but verify" can sometimes call for extraordinary measures.

It isn't an unreasonable request.

Codes don't explicitly grant inspectors the right to require floors to come up, wall sheathing to be removed, roofing to come off just for inspections...but that happens on occasion.

I don't know that the plumbing code would give me the authority to require a cut out plumbing sample either.

A contractor could say that if I want to know about reaming the pipe, I need to be there during the performance of the work.

If the contractor tells me to pound sand...well I suppose he'll be cutting out more samples than would be necessary at the re-inspection. Not as retribution, but hey now, the idea is trust but verify...if there is no trust to begin with, there needs to be a strong showing in the verification.

 

[David Henderson]

Boy ICE I don't know that you could defend that in court, do you do that with ABS and the likes also? I've been doing this for a couple of days now and have never heard of that until now. Workmanship is pretty subjective.

 

[Mac]

I don't know about saving the removed materials, but if the accessible and visible joints have not been reamed they are not compliant.

605.15.4 Soldered joints. Solder joints shall be made in accordance with the methods of ASTM B 828. All cut tube ends shall be reamed to the full inside diameter of the tube end.

 

[David Henderson]

I understand the standards but if it is capped off and under test no way of knowing. Guess we should start doing what ICE does

 

[ICE]

Boy ICE I don't know that you could defend that in court, do you do that with ABS and the likes also? I've been doing this for a couple of days now and have never heard of that until now. Workmanship is pretty subjective.

No David, I don't require a visual of the reaming on ABS. Water pipes and sewer liners.

By the lack of response, I take it that I am alone in this among the forum members. I also take it that there aren't any plumbers or inspectors from Santa Monica.

 

[Architect1281]

Every one knows that HOT water Pipes wera out faster than COLD water pipes Ice I'm amazed you hadn't heard or experienced the phenomenom. the reaso is cler HOT has Less Letters Than COLD by 25 % at least and therefore provide less resistance to the flow of water if your average cold water pipe last 12 years the hot will only yield 9 - simple math................