Accessible urinal within accessible toilet compartment?

[JPohling]

Reviewing some plans by others and they have configured the multi user mens toilet room to incorporate the accessible urinal within the accessible toilet compartment. They have all of the required clearances at both fixtures within the accessible compartment. I do not see any accessibility issues, but I am wondering if there is a plumbing fixture count issue if these are grouped together. One person will tie up two fixtures. I have seen this done before with the accessible sink within the accessible toilet stall, but never gave it to much thought. CBC 2013 governs

 

[mark handler]

It is allowed

 

[ADAguy]

Similar to Florida requiring the accessible lav in the accessible stall. It limits acess in the stall to only wheelers. Good practice but technically non-compliant for disabled non-wheelers.

 

[mark handler]

Good practice but technically non-compliant for disabled non-wheelers.

What "technically" would it be non-compliant, compliance has nothing to do with the facilities being occupied. The same as a nondisabled person using the "compliant" toilet, rather than the coffin size stalls. nothing prohibits this

 

[JBI]

Most codes require provisions for privacy in multi-user facilities, not sure about the CBC though.

[P] 1210.3 Privacy. Privacy at water closets and urinals shall be provided in accordance with Sections 1210.3.1 and 1210.3.2.

[P] 1210.3.1 Water closet compartment.

Each water closet utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions and a door enclosing the fixtures to ensure privacy.

Exceptions:

1. Water closet compartments shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.2. Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more water closets shall be permitted to have one water closet without an enclosing compartment.3. This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 occupancy housing areas.

P] 1210.3.2 Urinal partitions.

Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.

Exceptions: 1. Urinal partitions shall not be required in a single-occupant or family or assisted-use toilet room with a lockable door.2. Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more urinals shall be permitted to have one urinal without partitions

 

[ADAguy]

If installed out of the stall it is available to all, not so if only in the stall.

That differs from WC stalls which allow for multiple occupants, first come first served if you will.

 

[ADAguy]

Interesting point but in CA there is no privacy requirement.

Common decency would suggest otherwise but in many countries this is not a concern. Many allow full unisex use.

Yeah for NY!

 

[JPohling]

CA there is no "wheelers only" requirement for the accessible stall. Are you saying that in FL there is some code mandated exclusivity to the accessible compartments?

I exclusively use the accessible stall every chance I get. Only had one dirty look from a wheeler, but did not have to educate him on that fact.

 

[mark handler]

Most codes require provisions for privacy in multi-user facilities, not sure about the CBC though. [P] 1210.3 Privacy. Privacy at water closets and urinals shall be provided in accordance with Sections 1210.3.1 and 1210.3.2.

[P] 1210.3.1 Water closet compartment.

Each water closet utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions and a door enclosing the fixtures to ensure privacy.

Exceptions:

1. Water closet compartments shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.2. Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more water closets shall be permitted to have one water closet without an enclosing compartment.3. This provision is not applicable to toilet areas located within Group I-3 occupancy housing areas.

P] 1210.3.2 Urinal partitions.

Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not more than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.

Exceptions: 1. Urinal partitions shall not be required in a single-occupant or family or assisted-use toilet room with a lockable door.2. Toilet rooms located in child day care facilities and containing two or more urinals shall be permitted to have one urinal without partitions

Two or more users is not what I am posting about.

Two fixtures in a Single user toilet room is what I was talking about.

 

[JPohling]

I am talking about two fixtures ( WC and urinal) within the accessible toilet compartment within a multi user toilet room.

 

[ADAguy]

We get your point. It remains an "It depends" issue. Determination by local AHJ or ?

 

[mtlogcabin]

2009 IBC

[P] 2902.3 Required public toilet facilities.

Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with Section 2902.1 for all users. Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities shall either be separate or combined employee and public toilet facilities.

The urinal or WC is not available to others if the stall is occupied.

I am wondering if there is a plumbing fixture count issue if these are grouped together

I believe it is an issue and would only count the stall as one fixture

Does CBC 2013 have similar language as the IBC?

 

[mark handler]

Does CBC 2013 have similar language as the IBC?

No the CBC did not adopt chapter 29 at all. CA refers all to CPC, written by IAPMO. No similar language

422.2 Separate Facilities. Separate toi let facilities shall be provided for each sex.

Exceptions:

(1) Residential installations.

2)In occupancies with a total occupant load of 10 or including customers and employees, one toilet facility, designed for use by no more than one person at a time, shall be permitted for use by both sexes.

(3) In business and mercantile occupancies with a total occupant load of 50 or less including customers and employees, one toilet facility, designed for use by no more than one person at a time, shan be permitted for use by both sexes.