Accessory Structure Use

[my250r11]

I'm reviewing an application for a 45 X 60 metal bldg. It is for a local church to store their buses in. They are calling it storage. No plumbing and no power. Question is do I require they to provide lighting? Require it to be classified as a garage? 2009 IBC

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Group U is for private or pleasure-type motor vehicles; I'd start with 406.2 and 1006.1 as applicable.

The 2012 edition also clarify that toilet facilities are required in parking garages as you described.

 

[zigmark]

This would be a storage building by occupancy designation.

S-2 if just parking and no other storage or use, S-1 if parking and repairing. Potentially even a U occupancy private garage. The plumbing issue could be resolved easily enough if the building was adjacent to an existing building with adequate facilities. No power is more tricky due to exit lighting, etc.. I can't imagine they truly want no power within a building like this. People arrive in the early hours to head out somewhere and they can't see to get in the building to get a bus? Just doesn't function well from a practical perspective.

ZIG

 

[my250r11]

That's the way I was thinking to.

 

[north star]

@ = @ = @

my250r11,

Since you are using the `09 IBC, ...according to Section 406.1.1

[ RE: greater than 1,00 sq. ft. ] you will have an S-2 = Low Hazard

type structure [ RE: Section 311.3 ].............Also, ...since you will have

an S-2, ...you will be required to have approved toilet facilities in

the S-2 Structure, or within 500 ft. of the S-2 structure [ RE:

Section 2902.3.2 ], and approved Signage to the compliant toilet

facilities [ RE: Section 2902.4 ]..........See Table 2902.1 for the

number & type of plumbing fixtures required.

Have you addressed the ADA requirements yet ?



@ = @ = @

 

[my250r11]

No I have not

 

[mtlogcabin]

Nothing would require a building of this size to have electric. You can have minimal electric and not trigger the energy code if that is a concern

101.5.2 Low energy buildings.

The following buildings, or portions thereof, separated from the remainder of the building by building thermal envelope assemblies complying with this code shall be exempt from the building thermal envelope provisions of this code:

1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less than 3.4 Btu/h • ft2 (10.7 W/m2) or 1.0 watt/ft2 (10.7 W/m2) of floor area for space conditioning purposes.

2. Those that do not contain conditioned space

406.2.6 Floor surface.

Parking surfaces shall be of concrete or similar noncombustible and nonabsorbent materials.

The area of floor used for parking of automobiles or other vehicles shall be sloped to facilitate the movement of liquids to a drain or toward the main vehicle entry doorway.

Exceptions:

1. Asphalt parking surfaces shall be permitted at ground level.

2. Floors of Group S-2 parking garages shall not be required to have a sloped surface.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Group U is for private or pleasure-type motor vehicles; I'd start with 406.2 and 1006.1 as applicable.The 2012 edition also clarify that toilet facilities are not required in parking garages as you described.

With all due respect with this response to north star I left out not in my first reply as noted above!

2012 & 2015 IBC

[P] 2902.3 Employee and public toilet facilities.

Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with Section 2902.1 for all users. Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities shall either be separate or combined employee and public toilet facilities.

Exception: Public toilet facilities shall not be required in open or enclosed parking garages. Toilet facilities shall not be required in parking garages where there are no parking attendants.

"Exception 1 clarifies that even though a parking structure is classified as a Group S occupancy (storage structure) and Table 2902.1 requires storage occupancies to have toilet facilities, parking structures are exempt from this requirement. Note that if a parking structure has attendants, they must be provided with toilet facilities within the travel limitations of the code."

 

[north star]

# ~ # ~ #

my250r11,

Depending upon the location of the nearest compliant toilet facilities, and

looking at the `09 IBC, ...Section 2902.2, Exception # 2, ...you would not

be required to have separate toilet facilities with an Occupant Load of

less than 15, ...which you do [ RE: 45' x 60' = 2,700 / 200 Gross sq. ft.

per occupant = 13.5 occupants ] !



You will also need some type of approved MOE lighting, inside your

structure, and to the Public Way [ RE: Section 1006.3, ..."shall normally

be provided by the premises electrical supply" ].





# ~ # ~ #

 

[mtlogcabin]

Not if it is a "U" occupancy private garage

1006.1 Illumination required.

The means of egress , including the exit discharge , shall be illuminated at all times the building space served by the means of egress is occupied.

Exceptions:



1. Occupancies in Group U.

 

[my250r11]

I'm think U occ. It is locate well away from any other buildings and utilities. But with it being buses, and for a church does this make it a private garage or parking garage there for an S2? Are the buses commerical vehicles and then this would make it S2. No plbg. needed. And Thank you to all that have commented!

 

[north star]

+ & + & +

my250r11,

I would go along with the Private Garage designation [ RE: "U Occ. Group" ]

if someone can convince me that those buses will never be used in a

commercial manner, or that not one red cent will ever be collected for their

use.

In my neck `o the woods, ...churches need income as badly as other businesses.

Rather than everyone sitting around a table doing the `ol "wink, wink, ...nod,

nod, ...we'll never use the buses in a Commercial manner" routine, ...just go

ahead and state categorically that the church DOES indeed intend to use the

buses in any way that they can generate income from their use, and help to

pay for their fancy "new" Commercial storage garage........Heck, [ some ]

churches are already generating income in other ways [ RE: pancake

breakfasts, ...serving meals before, during & after church services, and

during the week, ...field trips, ...renting their facilities out, and on and

on and on ].

What makes this proposed "new" structure any different ? :?:



+ & + & +

 

[Francis Vineyard]

I'm think U occ. It is locate well away from any other buildings and utilities. But with it being buses, and for a church does this make it a private garage or parking garage there for an S2? Are the buses commercial vehicles and then this would make it S2. No plbg. needed. And Thank you to all that have commented!

Commercial size vehicles are not prohibited from being parked in private garages.

Also consider 2012 IBC goes a step further to logically remove the public and private bathrooms for parking garages (S-2).

Similarly with school buses I would permit a classification of Group U.

 

[Builder Bob]

Group U has a size limitation that this project exceeds - So it would have to be S-2.

406.3.1 Classification.

Buildings or parts of buildings classified as Group U occupancies because of the use or character of the occupancy shall be not greater than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area or one story in height except as provided in Section 406.3.2. Any building or portion thereof that exceeds the limitations specified in this section shall be classified in the occupancy group other than Group U that it most nearly resembles.

Occupant load would be based on 200 gross - 2700 SF / 200 equals = 14 occupants - One bathroom if others not within 500 feet, minimum of two side-swing doors for egress since occupant load over 10. Which in turn may require exit signs and emergency illumination if the common path of travel exceeds 100 feet.

In other words, designer would have to provide information for the building department to review -

 

[mtlogcabin]

406.3.2 Area increase.

Group U occupancies used for the storage of private or pleasure-type motor vehicles where no repair work is completed or fuel is dispensed are permitted to be 3,000 square feet (279 m2) where the following provisions are met:

I usually rely on the state classification of the vehicle to determine if a bus is "private" or not. If it is a vehicle for hire then there are certain decals (taxes) that they have to pay.