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Addition to existing/ mixed construction types

Kmoney

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
10
Any advice on how to interpret the existing building code for an addition. The project involves an existing 4 story mill building that is roughly 25,000 square feet. It has 3-4 ft thick masonry walls and heavy timers, so I think its type 4 construction. The building had an 1 story addition that caught on fire. The addition was built over an existing basement that extends out another 20 feet beyond the addition. The owner would like to build to the outer basement wall for the new 1 story addition. We were planning on using wood joists, rafters and studs. Fire separations seems like a difficult solution, as there are windows that flank both sides of the new roof about 2 ft above it, and it would involve several fire doors.Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but type 3a construction permits an allowable height of 3 stories and 19,000 s.f. So lowering the classification would make it non-conforming. I can use the frontage to increase the allowable area to 28,000 feet and the existing sprinkler gets me an 1 extra allowable story or some 1 hr subsitutions for construction elements per table 601. Is this a valid option to explore assuming the construction elements of the mill building meet all the hourly requirements of Table 601. Also, is it possible that since the addition does not extend the allowable heights that I can just use the sprinkler for the 1 hour substitution for construction elements and the frontage modification for the allowable area?AttachedView attachment 1224 is a diagram of what I am talking about.

View attachment 1657

View attachment 1657

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You can use the frontage for an area increase and the sprinkler for the 1-hour substitution.
 
So your interpretation is that I don't have to cover for the 4th story that isn't allowable for type 3a construction since it is existing and I am only building a one story addition?

Upon looking more at the code, I am wondering if it is reasonable to assume that heavy timber could already be substituted for the 1 hour ratings required in table 601. Type 4 construction has allowable an allowable height of 4 stories and and almost double the area permitted of type 3a.

Thanks for your help Ron.
 
I didn't pick up on the fact that you stated it was a 4-story building.

In that case, you'll need the sprinkler for the height increase, in which case you could not use the sprinkler for the 1-hour substitution.
 
It sounds like your addition is going to be Type V....? You would then derate the entire building......? Or it is a firewall w/ separate buildings.....
 
I recommend employing an architect experienced in this type of work on your project.
 
steveray said:
It sounds like your addition is going to be Type V....? You would then derate the entire building......? Or it is a firewall w/ separate buildings.....
We have steel beams for the primary frame and I believe I can use hourly ratings for the rest, including the exterior wall (there is only 1 exterior wall) to make it Type 3A.

So I was hoping that it would only derate the entire building to type 3a. Interestingly Type 4 for F-1 use has 4 allowable stories and 30,000 s.f. area which is less restrictive ., but the way table 503 reads Type four is worse in fire resistance than type IV. Does anyone know if Type 4 would be considered the lesser of the two?

The fire wall seems like it might be more costly. The existing exterior walls form a C shape in plan. They run from the basement up 4 stories. There would be at least 5 fire doors to add and the existing windows on the second floor that look down on the roof would have to be fire rated as I understand it.

I'm not sure what else to do. The addition doesn't affect any exits and is only used or storage. Maybe I explore the performance compliance methods in the existing building code? Building the 1,500 s.f. addition out of non-combustible seems silly for a 30,000 s.f. building just to be able to say the existing heavy timber complies to type 4.
 
brudgers said:
I recommend employing an architect experienced in this type of work on your project.
I am the architect. I'm just trying to fully understand this before I bounce it off the seniors.
 
but the way table 503 reads Type four is worse in fire resistance than type 3.

corrected from post #9
 
602.3 Type III.

Type III construction is that type of construction in which the exterior walls are of noncombustible materials.......I thought you said wood studs???
 
It says fire-retardant treated wood framing shall be permitted in 2 hr exterior wall assemblies.
 
Kmoney said:
but the way table 503 reads Type four is worse in fire resistance than type 3.corrected from post #9
I wouldn't say that Type IV is worse or better than Type III...just different. One thing to remember about Type IV is that the heavy timber construction cannot create concealed spaces--it must be fully exposed.

If using Type IIIA construction, then the steel frame will need to have 1-hour protection. Exterior walls, if constructed of wood studs, must be fire-retardant-treated wood.
 
That's a good point about concealed spaces. The building is 200 plus years old and in all likelihood, it probably doesn't meet the criteria of Type IV to a tee.

Here are the parts of IEBC that confuse me:

"Where an addition impacts the existing building or structure that portion shall comply with this code."

"An addition shall not create or extend any nonconformity in the existing building to which the addition is being made with regard to accessibility, structural strength, fire safety, means of egress or capacity of mechanical, plumbing, or electrical systems."

"no addition shall increase the the height of an existing building beyond that permitted in Chapter 5"

Maybe this all allows for the height of the existing portion to be grandfathered?
 
Kmoney,

Also, welcome to The Building Codes Forum!

..The addition doesn't affect any exits and is only used or storage..
What type of storage is planned for this addition, S-1, S-2 or Hazardous?.
 
Kmoney said:
I am the architect. I'm just trying to fully understand this before I bounce it off the seniors.
This is the sort of thing you should be discussing with "the seniors" before you waste any more time guessing at what they are going to seal. That's what I mean by "experienced."

This is not a "google a solution" situation.
 
I googled this solution for brudgers avatar pic. the last sentance applies in spades to our very own brudgers.

Monday, June 14, 2010

Top 10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds

It’s good to know what breeds of dogs might be most dangerous, just to keep yourself safe. Sometimes the danger in a dog isn’t even a nasty personality, but a matter of them not knowing their own strength. Even though I personally still find it hard to believe that breed alone deems a dog “dangerous,” you never know what a dog’s owner has taught it. The research into the most dangerous dogs included below was performed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the CDC, and the Humane Society of the United States. We’ll start with least dangerous of the bunch.

10. Dalmatian

Origin: Balkans, India, Middle Ages

Weight: 40-70 lbs

Height: 20-24 inches

Dalmatians are active and energetic dogs, loving to be outdoors. They are very playful and love running.

There’s still no definite info about what this breed was originally bred for. This is the first dotted breed in Europe, Asia and Africa. They were serving as warriors, hunters, and shepherds before finally becoming the symbol of the English fireman.

9. Boxer

Origin: Germany, 1850-ies

Weight: 50-70 lbs

Height: 20-25 inches

Unlike their name suggest, these dogs are not typically aggressive by nature. They are bright, energetic and playful breed. Boxers have been known to be "headstrong", which makes it a bit difficult to train them but with positive reinforcement techniques, Boxers often respond much better.

8. Presa Canario

Origin: Canary Islands, Africa

Weight: 100-125 lbs

Height: 25-26 inches

The Presa Canario hails from the Canary Islands, where the dogs were trained for hunting and for war. During the 18th century, English traders and merchants came to the Canary Islands, bringing with them their working and gladiator dogs, notably the Mastiff of England and the Bulldog. Englishmen also brought with them their traditions of pit fighting for which their breeds and the island dogs were inevitably mixed and eventually bred to produce the ultimate fighter. Nowadays the breed is used for guarding and the handling and driving of cattle.

The dogs of this breed can be gentle and noble with their families, showing great affection to their owners, and being suspicious of strangers. They are a guardian breed with man-stopping ability, incredible power and a complete lack of fear.

7. Chow Chow

Origin: China, antiquity

Weight: 40-65 lbs

Height: 18-22 inches

The chow chow is an independent dog often focused only on its own needs. Chow chows need constant physical activity and communication, even if they don’t seem to like being disturbed much.

Chow chows were bred for hunting and helping shepherds.

6. Doberman Pinscher

Origin: Germany, XIX century

Weight: 65-90 lbs

Height: 26-28 inches

Doberman pinschers (often just called dobermans) are dogs that were originally bred to protect and defend. It is important to avoid any type of aggressive play and struggle with these dogs, instead letting the games be guided to develop the doberman’s intelligence. Even though they aren’t small dogs, dobermans can adapt to life in a city and become a perfect companion for the experienced, physically active owner. The typical pet Doberman attacks only if it believes that it, its property, or its family are in danger.

5. Alaskan Malamute

Origin: North America, ancient times

Weight: 80-110 lbs

Height: 23-28 inches

The malamute is a friendly dog, but it has rather an independent temper. It’s better to keep this dog in a village, far from the city. Sometimes violent and energetic, they constantly need to move or play. If they are bored, they can become destructive. That's why this dog needs lots of exercise to be happy. It’s a working breed where the dogs are used to a cold climate, so if you don’t live in the deep north, make your malamute a nice playground as they are always in need of physical activity.

4. Husky

Origin: Siberia, ancient times

Weight: 35-55 lbs

Height: 20-24 inches

The training of a husky is a complicated thing, and this dog is not recommended for beginning dog owners. Initially these dogs were used to transport goods on a sleigh. Not afraid of cold weather, they’re very active and loving dogs. The love to get together with other members of their breed and howl at the moon.

A 2000 study of dog bites resulting in human fatalities in the U.S. found fifteen such fatalities (6% of the total) were caused by "husky-type" dogs between 1979 and 1997.

3. German Shepherd

Origin: Germany, XIX century

Weight: 70-85 lbs

Height: 22-26 inches

German shepherds are very beautiful dogs, distinguished from other breeds by their reliable and obedient temper. They are in need of constant and serious physical activity though, and they seem to give preference to long walks and active games.

Originally (as obvious from the name), the dogs were used for grazing sheep. They are great home guards and often participate in programs for the disabled. They are highly used by local authorities such as the police K-9 unit. German shepherds are known to be fearless and confident dogs.

2. Rottweiler

Origin: Germany, 1820-ies

Weight: 85-110 lbs

Height: 23-27 inches

Rottweilers are powerful dogs with strong jaws, primarily meant to protect. The breed was bred especially for that purpose. They often don’t like strangers and other dogs — they are guards at heart, and the dog owner should always remember that.

1. Pit Bull

Origin: US, XIX century

Weight: 55-65 lbs

Height: 18-22 inches

The pit bull was bred especially for dog fighting and, sad as it is, they’re still used for this purpose today. A pit bull is a fearless dog that will take on any opponent. They will lock their jaws onto the prey until it's dead. Pit bulls have a reputation of mauling people to death.
 
I would take my chances with any of those over a Kangal or Pyrenean Mastiff.

Or a poorly trained Great Dane.

Or any sort of wolf-dog.

In other words, an internet article full of pitbull hype is hardly surprising.
 
brudgers said:
I would take my chances with any of those over a Kangal or Pyrenean Mastiff. Or a poorly trained Great Dane.

Or any sort of wolf-dog.

In other words, an internet article full of pitbull hype is hardly surprising.
Like I said I googled it, thought it would get you more wee wee'd up.
 
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