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Another window replacement thread

rktect 1

rktect 1

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,113
Location
Illinois
Something I learned yesterday.

Yesterday I had a window representatvie come to my house to quote me a price for replacement windows. He went through his whole shpeal in about 1.5 hours. Then he started to take measurements of the existing windows. I noticed that he measured the windows on the inside of the frame and I asked him if, when I signed a contract, another person would come out for the rough opening dimension to be verified? He said that would not be necassary as the new replacement window fits right into the old frame. I said what do you mean? He responded that the will remove all the old sashes and stops but the existing window frame and the trim around that frame remain in place. The new replacement window will just be fitted into the old window frame. This threw me off a bit so I asked him if the do a complete removal and install. He said of course and quoted me for both ways.

Now, we got to the bedrooms for measuring. I said, as you can see I have the correct size windows to meet EERO. If you put a replacement window into the frame here I will lose that 5.7 sq. ft. opening, right? His reply was that villages allow window installers to replace "like for like". I didn't push the issue, but we all know now that installing a window in this fashion is not "like for like" it is smaller now and may not meet EERO. Worse case for a village like the one I work in where the windows are already too small, they all just got even smaller.

Just a comparrison. If you had a double hung with 5.7 sq. ft. clear opening. And you installed a new window in that opening. Lets say we use what this guy had which had about a 2" vinyl extruded frame. An opening for one sash of 34" wide and 24" high = 5.7. Subtract the 2" frame from the two sides and the lower section and I'd have a 30" wide and 22" high opening for 4.6 sq. ft. opening.

Just thought I'd share.
 
Thanks for sharing, rkt.

Because window replacement is included in appendix "J", we require a permit application.

Not sure if the language below applies elsewhere, due to NYS significant revisions, but it allows an unspecified wee bit of reduction:

AJ502.3 Replacement door and window dimensions. Minor reductions in the clear opening dimensions of replacement doors and windows that result from the use of different materials shall be allowed.
 
Mac,

Thanks for the response. I looked at the code commentary for the appendix J under renovations which our village did adopt. It appears that this is in regards to a complete removal of the frame and replacement of a new frame with another type of material which would increase the frames dimension somewhat. Plus, what do you consider a minor reduction? For me a reduction from 5.7 sq. ft. to less than 5 sq. ft. is no longer minor and all it takes to get to that point is a new frame, inside the old one, with a thickness of about 1.25".
 
CT has an amendment that allows "easily removable" sashes in a replacement situation.....don't like it....too vague...but it is what it is...
 
Most places allow like for like. Depending on the manufacturer of the window, the measurement they use will be different. We replaced all of our existing windows in two stages, using two different manufacturers (but the same measurements as the first supplier). The second batch of windows were a little too big, so we needed to shave off part of the vinyl to make them work.
 
I don't permit reducing the opening of an EERO opening. It is not "like for like". Also, as an aside, what is the point in replacing just the sashes when MOST of the energy issues have to do with the frame (infiltration) . . . ?
 
If it wasn't legal . . . do you mean if it was non-compliant with an adopted code when it was originally installed? Then it gets the full compliance.

If it was installed prior to any code, then it can't have a reduced clear opening, or a reduction in the 20 x 24 opening dimensions. The above is for building code.

The LSC requires a minimum replacement to be 20" wide by 24" tall even if installed pre-code (and not less than the existing clear opening), period, end of discussion. (I mean with the homeowner, not you : )
 
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That arguement usually gets me into trouble, Yank... if there was an adopted code in place when the windows were originally installed, the windows need to comply with what was in force then... since we occassionally see 200 year old houses (like you probably do, too).. it's like for like. If they weren't compliant in the first place, that's another story (so we see casement windows... usually with grids - which is kind of odd to see). Our builders don't want to get sued either.
 
Bless you, my child... you are in a GOOD jurisdiction... not necessarily playing the populas card...
 
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