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Antifreeze Solutions Within Residential Fire Sprinkler

mark handler

mark handler

SAWHORSE
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
11,678
Location
So. CA
http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/inform...nklers10-26-2010.pdf

Antifreeze Solutions Within Residential Fire Sprinkler Applications Modifications to the California Code of Regulations, Title 24, Part 2, 2.5, and 9 for the use of Antifreeze within residential fire sprinkler systems The purpose of this information bulletin is to advise local code enforcement agencies and interested parties of a code adoption change to be effective January 1, 2011. On October 19, 2010, the California Building Standards Commission approved the Office of the State Fire Marshal emergency regulations amending sections of the California Code of Regulations (CCR), Title 24, Part 2, 2.5, and 9 (California Building Code, California Residential Building Code, and California Fire Code).

Summary of Effect:

The approved emergency regulations would require that only pre-mixed antifreeze solutions in concentrations not to exceed 40% propylene glycol and concentrations of glycerin not exceeding 50% in residential occupancies and other dwelling units be permitted for the protection of sprinkler pipe in freezing conditions. The use of antifreeze shall only be used as a last method for protection, with consideration given to recorded prolonged freezing temperatures, and approved by the authority having jurisdiction. This modification is effective on January 1, 2011.

The objectives of the emergency regulations are to continue to ensure the regulations of the California Building Standards Code, establish and/or maintain minimum requirements for the prevention of fire and for the protection of life and property against fire and panic in accordance with Health and Safety Code Section 13100.1 that foster, promote, and develop ways and means of protecting life and property against fire and panic. It also serves to emphasize the importance of residential fire sprinklers in the efforts to reduce fire fatalities in homes and apartments in California. Fire sprinklers in apartments have been required by the California Building Code over the past twenty years; it is suggested those existing structures that have antifreeze as part of their design to protect pipe from freezing should contact a licensed fire sprinkler contractor to verify if appropriate action is needed.

The complete emergency regulation package and more information regarding this Information Bulletin may be obtained by visiting the website for the Office of the State Fire Marshal at http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/
 
By all means; YES, expose the public's potable water suppy system to poison; to protect life.

Insanity prevails,

Uncle Bob
 
Ethylene glycol is the poison one, this is RV antifreeze. Go get a can of Dr Pepper or if you've ever had GI work done, PEG polyethylene glycol is another cousin

"for many heat-transfer applications it is necessary to use a heat-transfer fluid with lower freezing point than water. The most common antifreeze fluid - ethylene glycol - must not be used where there is the slightest chance of leakage to potable water or food processing systems. in food processing systems the common heat-transfer fluid is based on propylene glycol"

MSDS;

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm
 
Thanks DRP

Any excuse for some to hate Residential Fire Sprinklers

Their fears are just that, Fears.....
 
Mark said:
Any excuse for some to hate Residential Fire Sprinklers.
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Some of hate residential sprinklers because of all the fraud, misinformation, and bribery of the corrupt fire sprinkler industry, to say nothing of the huge kickbacks to the firefighters' unions resulting in the enormous salaries and other benefits of firefighters .

\ said:
Kozlowski became notorious for his extravagant lifestyle supported by the booming stock market of the late 1990s and early 2000s; allegedly, he had Tyco pay for his $30 million New York City apartment which included $6,000 shower curtains and $15,000 "dog umbrella stands".

According to Forbes, Kozlowski also purchased several acres in the private gated community, "The Sanctuary", in Boca Raton, Florida, while he was CEO at Tyco International.

Tyco paid $1 million (half of the $2 million bill) for the 40th birthday party of Kozlowski's second wife, Karen M. Kozlowski. The extravagant party, held on the Italian island of Sardinia, featured an ice sculpture of the Statue of David urinating Stolichnaya vodka. This birthday bash was disguised as a shareholder meeting in order to get corporate funding. In a camcorder video, Dennis Kozlowski states that this party will bring out a Tyco core competency - the ability to party hard. Subsequently, this shareholder meeting/birthday party became known as the Tyco Roman Orgy.

Kozlowski, New York State Department of Correctional Services # 05A4820, is in Mid-State Correctional Facility. His aggregate minimum sentence is 8 years and 4 months, and his aggregate maximum sentence is 25 years. His parole hearing date will be in April 2012. His parole eligibility date and his parole hearing merit release appearance are on January 17, 2014. His conditional release date is on May 17, 2022. His maximum expiration date is September 17, 2030¹
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Fortunately Mr. Kozlowski is still in prison, too bad more of his ilk in this corrupt industry wasn't in prison. The "Tyco core competency - the ability to party hard" as many of us saw in the Minneapolis code hearings.

¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kozlowski
 
Dick

You keep beliving that, if it works for you....

Once you replace negative thoughts with positive ones, you'll start having positive results.

–Willie Nelson
 
Fires in homes account for the majority of fire fatalities in Canada, 80% of all fire deaths occur in residential properties. The City of Vancouver has proven through their fire sprinkler bylaw that residences with a fire sprinkler system and smoke detectors increase occupant survivability by 88%. In Vancouver, no fatalities have occurred in a residential property equipped with a fire sprinkler system installed to N.F.P.A. 13D since the implementation of their bylaw.

Hows that negativity working out for you....
 
mark handler said:
Fires in homes account for the majority of fire fatalities in Canada, 80% of all fire deaths occur in residential properties. The City of Vancouver has proven through their fire sprinkler bylaw that residences with a fire sprinkler system and smoke detectors increase occupant survivability by 88%. In Vancouver, no fatalities have occurred in a residential property equipped with a fire sprinkler system installed to N.F.P.A. 13D since the implementation of their bylaw.Hows that negativity working out for you....
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As you noted houses with 13D systems have smoke detectors and presumably meet other recent code requirements, contain newer appliances, are located in neighborhoods zoned for current fire access, and have experienced less deferred maintainence and non-code compliant renovation.

Correlation is not causation.

A source for your claim would also be appropriate.
 
In my jurisdiction -20 would cover the rare times it gets that cold. The average warmest month is August.

  • The highest recorded temperature was 105°F in 1961.
  • On average, the coolest month is January.
  • The lowest recorded temperature was -38°F in 1950.
  • The maximum average precipitation occurs in June.
 
mark handler said:
Fires in homes account for the majority of fire fatalities in Canada, 80% of all fire deaths occur in residential properties. The City of Vancouver has proven through their fire sprinkler bylaw that residences with a fire sprinkler system and smoke detectors increase occupant survivability by 88%....
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This statement contributes nothing to the argument of cost of sprinklers verses benefit. The percentage of lives saved must be calculated for smoke alarms, then, recalculated for smoke alarms including sprinklers.

On the link posted by conarb, the chart on page 14, Mandatory Regulations, Cost Per Life Saved, would make an effective visual aid for any organization against mandatory sprinklers. It, in itself, makes an effective argument, and would look good on a tee shirt.
 
What is a life worth.

You child, your spouse, your mother? Cheap insurance. If you can save their life for 3k to 6k spread over 15 years?

People spend more on kitchen upgrades

brudgers

It was found with a google search, type in "Canada, fire deaths"
 
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Tried to stay out of it......regardless of what side one is on the real issue is to work on the Insurance Industry to reduce the pay back to 5 years like we are trying to do in D.C. with the Sprinkler Incentive Act to include "residential" as (an ALL).
 
What is a life worth. That is a question that generates an emotional response. You cannot save everyone from all house fires. The real question is what are the acceptable losses.

Cheap insurance. Insurance is based on acceptable losses and the chances a claim will never be filed. Some are willing to go with the odds a fire will never happen in their home. A fire sprinkler system is no guarantee against all deaths in a home due to a fire

People spend more on kitchen upgrades. That is their choice. I choose to spend my money driving large older gas guzzling 3/4 ton vehicles because statiscally I or my wife will have less injuries or chance of death in an accident with a civic, prius, porche, vw or any other smaller vehicle.

Do you know the statistical chance of an individual dying in a fire? National average 13.2 per million, My state is 9.4 per million and we do not have a million people in this state yet the state fire marshals office acceptable losses would be zero loss of life in a fire.

http://www.montanafirechiefs.com/default.asp?deptid=1&com=announcements&pressID=1128

That is unrealistic. I think they all have marajuana cards and they are not living in the real world.
 
Mark said:
If you can save their life for 3k to 6k spread over 15 years?People spend more on kitchen upgrades
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Therein lies one of the biggest lies, on the home I'm working on now if I do have to install sprinklers it will cost over $200,000, tanks and all. Those here point pout that Santa Clara County is over the top with their requirements, yet we have to deal with the jurisdictions that we are located within. In our county the water meter charge is over $135,000.
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It's all a matter of choice, you choose to build that house in an inaccessible location

Location is a matter of choice
 
mark handler said:
brudgers It was found with a google search, type in "Canada, fire deaths"
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"I read it on the internet" is good enough for me.

Dear esquire Mark. Handler,

I hope this message finds you well. My late uncle, the honorable and respected Ambassador to Guatemala Herman T. Jackson IV left me a considerable sum of $20,000,000 in gold franc bearer bonds redemption cupons. Unfortunately due to currency restrictions, and the removal of my visa by the TSA I am unable to access those sums from my current location in Nigeria. However, if you send me $100 via paypal and your checking account number, I will deposit all sums to your account pending transfer to my accounts in Bermuda less a handling fee of 15%, of course. I eagerly await your answer.

Tvami Moreeshuu
 
Any excuse for some to hate Residential Fire SprinklersTheir fears are just that, Fears.....
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I don't hate them nor do I fear them and I agree they can be extremely benificial and effective but I do believe as evidenced by the statements below by a Fire Chiefs Association those advocating RSFS as the sytem that will save every mother, child and baby from dying in a house fire are no different then those who used to sell snake oil for a living.

The Montana Career Fire Chiefs Association (MCFCA)supports adoption, in the State of Montana, of the residential sprinkler requirements, as set forth in the 2009 IRC, and

1. In order to reduce deaths from structure fires to zero and limit property damage from structure fires to the area of origin, the MCFCA

· Advocates for complete automatic fire sprinkler protection of all new occupied construction, including one-and two-family dwellings;

· Supports efforts to educate the public on the benefits of fire sprinkler protection;

· Supports efforts to educate Code Officials on the benefits of fire sprinkler protection;

· Advocates for the elimination of codes, laws or policies that discourage the cost effective installation of fire sprinkler systems;

2. In order to reduce firefighter fire ground deaths to zero, the MCFCA

Mark I think you would even agree the number will never stay at zero.
 
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