• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Architects Liability in Using Other Architects Drawings

K

Kendra

REGISTERED
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
72
Location
Philadelphia
I work in a small residential design firm. A client came to us and asked us to take their existing drawings (done by another architect) and finish them and submit them for permit. All that needs to be done is an electrical plan and some structural coordination. I confirmed with the client that the previous architect had issued and electronic document release agreement. Within the agreement it says that the "architect makes no representation regarding accuracy or completeness of the electronic files..." etc. Even though the agreement give the client permission to give the docs to another architect, I am reluctant to put my stamp on drawings that I didn't create. I would love any input! Thank you!
 
If the first design professional has completed the scope of their contract, drawings should be stamped by them. If they have not completed their design, then it is "start over" territory.

I've done this a couple of times where I've taken design drawings from one professional and had another professional actually do the site inspections. They always get me to sign a release that I am aware that the second professional is not re-evaluating the first professional's work and that they are relying on it's accuracy in completing their inspections. I would imagine something similar would be in order here.
 
tmurray said:
If the first design professional has completed the scope of their contract, drawings should be stamped by them. If they have not completed their design, then it is "start over" territory.

I've done this a couple of times where I've taken design drawings from one professional and had another professional actually do the site inspections. They always get me to sign a release that I am aware that the second professional is not re-evaluating the first professional's work and that they are relying on it's accuracy in completing their inspections. I would imagine something similar would be in order here.
Click to expand...
Well that is kind of the issue. The first architect ALMOST finished the design, but didn't do the electrical plan. The client fired them and now wants us to finish and stamp their work. They have given permission to the client to give their CAD files to another architect to use and modify, but they said they won't take responsibility for any accuracy or "completeness". It makes me nervous that it is not my design aside from the electrical.
 
I do not have a license to lose, but I would not stamp someone else's work without reviewing everything, making sure it is correct, and fixing any deficiencies or something you are not comfortable with.

I would say your fee increases to review the design, reproduce it if necessary to claim as your own, correct it if necessary, complete it, and take responsibility for it.
 
What type of project and the size and scope is it. Is there a spec book already completed to describe some of the electrical that is needed for the project. Is beyond the scope of expertise that you have with electrical and maybe an electrical engineer should be brought on board.

CYA :eek:
 
The architect gave their permission to use their work, so you are not plagiarizing or causing copyright issues.

As far as the technical liability, review the plans page by page. Keep what you like, modify what you don't. Anything you aren't sure about, redo it. That way, you take full responsibility for the drawings just like you drew them from scratch. Charge accordingly for your time, and make it clear that you have to re-invent the wheel to insure safety. If they fired the other architect, they are either difficult customers you will be better off without, or it will not be hard to convince them that the other architect is an idiot and you need to redo their work.

I would NOT just use someone else's plans without checking them thoroughly.
 
If the client wants you to seal the drawings, you should treat the original drawings as DD, and prepare complete CDs. How much of the files you use is up to you.

If sealed drawings are not required, if for instance it is based on IRC, you could act as a consultant, reptesenting the owner to the contractor who is completing the design.
 
Sounds like the client is hoping to get you to finish them for a bargain. I would quote a price: $x for electrical, $y for structural and $z for architectural, which should include enough hours of your time to go over them in excruitating detail, and time to make corrections. The first archy has waived the copyright issue, which was nice.
 
bill1952 said:
If the client wants you to seal the drawings, you should treat the original drawings as DD, and prepare complete CDs. How much of the files you use is up to you.

If sealed drawings are not required, if for instance it is based on IRC, you could act as a consultant, reptesenting the owner to the contractor who is completing the design.
Click to expand...
Since it is state law that determines when permit drawings must be stamped and signed by a engineer or architect there may be situations where while the IRC was used for permitting a registered design professional's stamp and signature would still be needed.
 
Kendra said:
I am reluctant to put my stamp on drawings that I didn't create. I would love any input! Thank you!
Click to expand...
No matter how you slice that it doesn't pass a smell test. If your stamp stands for anything special, you should give it special treatment. As an inspector I only have a signature however there was a time as an inspector when I also had a stamp. I wouldn't sign or stamp anything until I was convinced that the signature and stamp was warranted. That is, after all, the purpose is it not.

The fact that you brought the question here tells me that you know the answer.
 
Have you tried calling the other firm to see what the issue was from their perspective.

The Firm might have split with the client because they are a undeciding client that changes their minds like gym shorts.

Sometimes, it is mutual and sometimes they provide a perspective with valuable insight.
 
ICE said:
No matter how you slice that it doesn't pass a smell test. If your stamp stands for anything special, you should give it special treatment. As an inspector I only have a signature however there was a time as an inspector when I also had a stamp. I wouldn't sign or stamp anything until I was convinced that the signature and stamp was warranted. That is, after all, the purpose is it not.

The fact that you brought the question here tells me that you know the answer.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Thank you!
 
tbz said:
Have you tried calling the other firm to see what the issue was from their perspective.

The Firm might have split with the client because they are a undeciding client that changes their minds like gym shorts.

Sometimes, it is mutual and sometimes they provide a perspective with valuable insight.
Click to expand...
Not yet, but this is a good suggestion!
 
Mark K said:
Since it is state law that determines when permit drawings must be stamped and signed by a engineer or architect there may be situations where while the IRC was used for permitting a registered design professional's stamp and signature would still be needed.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Thank you!
 
Kendra said:
I work in a small residential design firm. A client came to us and asked us to take their existing drawings (done by another architect) and finish them and submit them for permit. All that needs to be done is an electrical plan and some structural coordination. I confirmed with the client that the previous architect had issued and electronic document release agreement. Within the agreement it says that the "architect makes no representation regarding accuracy or completeness of the electronic files..." etc. Even though the agreement give the client permission to give the docs to another architect, I am reluctant to put my stamp on drawings that I didn't create. I would love any input! Thank you!
Click to expand...
Why not just ask the previous architect for permission to use his CAD files/ design ?
 
Never stamp drawings unless you or an employee prepared them. Consultants should stamp their own drawings. Aside from stamping drawings that weren't prepared under your supervision being illegal, you also are stuck with full liability for errors & omisions in them. It's not worth the chance.
 
Paul Sweet said:
Never stamp drawings unless you or an employee prepared them. Consultants should stamp their own drawings. Aside from stamping drawings that weren't prepared under your supervision being illegal, you also are stuck with full liability for errors & omisions in them. It's not worth the chance.
Click to expand...
Yes, my boss seems to agree. thank you all!
 
tbz said:
Have you tried calling the other firm to see what the issue was from their perspective.

The Firm might have split with the client because they are a undeciding client that changes their minds like gym shorts.

Sometimes, it is mutual and sometimes they provide a perspective with valuable insight.
Click to expand...

It's always best to get both sides.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top