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Attic or story

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,657
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Def. of story above grade. Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade plane.

Does this mean if it does not have a finished floor it's not a story?

I'm not sure if 2 buildings I'm looking at have a floor or an attic.

Building #1; New building, plans don't show elevations. Building started 5 years ago, bad plans approved before I worked here. It ended up with a very large attic/story about 10' high at peak. They framed for 4' knee walls and built stairs for it(which were not on plans). No windows on this level. Owner wants to finish walls and ceiling but not floor. They said they will not use it for anything. Use is B, type 5B can not be more than 2 stories according to height and area limitations IBC table 503. They, also, might need an elevator if this is a story and not an attic.

Building #2; existing building over 100 years old. Steps to very large attic/story. Not finished at all . Exterior walls 8' high with lots of windows. Roof goes up from there, peak about 16' high from floor. Old barn beam trusses every 12' for roof. This building never had an inspection or C.O. It's going thru a change in occupancy, nothing to M. M can't be more than one story for a 5B building according to Height and area limitations IBC table 503.
 
In my humble opinion and understanding that the owner’s don’t always inform the DP of intended uses or fail to disclose all pertinent information necessary for through review analysis; mark my words…….

A guy like me will discover the typical occurrences for these stories:

Bldg 1: Business storage or makeshift office space. Check to see what type of mechanical ventilation is provided to area.

Bldg 2: Sales, offices and storage.

They can pay now or later but in the end, they always pay. Since some don’t like guess on what may or may not occur in the future based on a “lack of detail” a suggestion would be to provide a CYJA note to the review so when discovery is made after the CO, the guy like me has ammunition to ease our pain.
 
Sounds to me on the surface that in both cases it would be considered a story. Change of Occupancy it is a new game. I not sure if I under stand the finished floor. Is it just Joists expose? If it is raw attic then maybe. Something smells about these two.!
 
The way I look at it is:

1. It is either an attic or a story.

2. If it is not an attic, then it must be a story.

3. An attic is an unfinished space.

It doesn't say unconditioned, non-habitable etc.. it says unfinished. As soon as they apply a wall covering I consider it finished and a story. I don't mind flooring for storage, but other than that it's finished. The line has to be drawn someplace between finished and unfinished. There is room for interpretation.
 
2009 IRC takes care of it with their "habitable attic" definition.

Of course they won't use it..
 
"Finish" is referring to the final surface when the building or area is being used for its code-intended purpose. An unoccupied attic can legitimately have a neatly finished "floor" as a mechanical access platform for an attic hounted HVAC air handler.

Conversely, an occupied attic could get its certificate of occupancy with what we would normally call a "subfloor" structural diaphragm. The definition of "finish" is irrelevant to your core issue.

No, the key issue is the use of the area, as determined by the building official per section 104 of the code. It would be the same situation as if you were concerned that an owner was using a garage as a 2nd unit. If you think an unoccupied space is being used for human occupancy, you have the right to enforce.

BTW, I'm glad they referenced the "finish" floor for definition of story elevations, as this helps clarify when we have conditions such as a raised floor in a computer room.
 
IRC Definition would not apply for a B or M use. Make the call and wait for the argument. You can always back up if they have reasonable argument.

Is there a difference between floor and finished floor?
 
If it has a raised floor, it's probably going to be used.. (all that communications crap they put in "underfloor spaces"). that ought to be a clue.
 
Thanks guys, you helped me make up my mind. They are both a story

Building 1 will need sprinklers and an elevator. Maybe I could just make them remove the steps to the 3rd floor.

Building 2 is 3 stories. Sprinklers will only help with 2 stories. They moved in and opened already without a building permit for a change of occ. Zoning caught them. But they gave them a zoning permit, before zoning asked me if they needed a building permit. This will make it very difficult to make them close the store.
 
BLDG 1 = stairs with flooring and drywall and conditioned - sound slike it meets the requriements for habitable space therefore would most closely resemble a story.

BLDG # 2 = Are they not required to make changes for the energeny efficiency of the building which a change of occupancy occurs?
 
Nothing in chapter 34 about energy codes in a change of occupancy. Do you make them take down walls to up date the insulation if a tenant space is being changed to B from M?
 
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