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Auto operator on rated double egress door

D

dontknowcodes

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
10
Location
NY
Hello All. Can I use an auto operator on a rated double egress door with surface mounted vertical rods? I can't find a way to release the latch. There is an existing opening with Von Dup 9827EOF that uses a discontinued Locknetics # 490 electro-magnetic latch release.
 
Welcome if it has not been said

And welcome from others that don't know codes

Where is this rated door? Across a corridor , horizontal exit, hospital door , other?

Why is the power operator wanted
 
are you using the operator so that you can use surface mounted rods that are not complying for accessibility?
 
cda said:
Welcome if it has not been saidAnd welcome from others that don't know codes

Where is this rated door? Across a corridor , horizontal exit, hospital door , other?

Why is the power operator wanted
Click to expand...
Thanks for the welcome

It's a corridor door in an outpatient medical facility.

They want an operator for easy access to wheel the patients out of the facility
 
They want to use an operator for easy access to wheel the patients out of the facility (out patient medical facility)
 
If the Locknetics 490 not functioning is an issue, you can use the SDC LR100 latch retraction kit in the 9827 for latch retraction to allow the operator to work. Make sure your operator has a delay to accomodate the latch retraction so they work in order without ripping the device off the door.

NFPA 80 does address the electrification of the device so it will probably need FA interface which (I would hope) is already there since the Locknetics 490 is in place.

6.4.4.3.3 Latching arrangements that do not provide positive latching in the normal mode shall be permitted to be used provided that, in a fire emergency, the door becomes positively latched by means of an automatic fail-safe device that is activated by an automatic fire detector. (See Section 4.7.)
 
cda said:
Are you sure the door is rated?Does it have to be rated?
Click to expand...
Yes the door is rated. It's an existing opening with a rated fire device. They want to add an auto operator. I'm suspecting it not possible to have a rated vertical rod device with an electric strike.

I will confirm if it needs to be rated
 
Folger Adam [Now HES] is the only mfg that I know of that makes an electric strike for a double door svr application in the 310-4 series. Unfortunately, its not UL listed for a fire door application hence the above suggestion.

Normally there is not enough room on the header between top latch strike plates to even use a single latch fire rated electrice strike without running into the other device.
 
You can add the electric latch retraction (EL/QEL) retrofit kit to your existing fire exit hardware, which will release the latch to allow the door to open automatically. You will also need a door loop or other type of power transfer to get the wires to the door. Because the doors are fire rated, you will need to have a fire alarm contact to cut power to both the operators and the ELs.

There may be a solution available from another manufacturer as mentioned in the responses above - just check to make sure they're acceptable for use on a rated door. Also, check to make sure the preparation for the product does not exceed the allowable field modifications on a fire door / frame - typically a 1-inch diameter hole is the limit without having the opening relabeled (this can get expensive). If your panic hardware has bottom rods and latches, you would need to remove them and add the less-bottom-rod (LBR) retrofit kit so the electric strike/controller is releasing just the top latches. You should check with the door manufacturer, especially if the doors have been in place for a while, to make sure it's acceptable to use the LBR devices on them.

If you need help getting the Von Duprin retrofit kits or choosing the specific hardware that you need, I can connect you with the local rep. If you want to email me directly, my email address is lori.greene@allegion.com.
 
LGreene said:
You can add the electric latch retraction (EL/QEL) retrofit kit to your existing fire exit hardware, which will release the latch to allow the door to open automatically. You will also need a door loop or other type of power transfer to get the wires to the door. Because the doors are fire rated, you will need to have a fire alarm contact to cut power to both the operators and the ELs.There may be a solution available from another manufacturer as mentioned in the responses above - just check to make sure they're acceptable for use on a rated door. Also, check to make sure the preparation for the product does not exceed the allowable field modifications on a fire door / frame - typically a 1-inch diameter hole is the limit without having the opening relabeled (this can get expensive). If your panic hardware has bottom rods and latches, you would need to remove them and add the less-bottom-rod (LBR) retrofit kit so the electric strike/controller is releasing just the top latches. You should check with the door manufacturer, especially if the doors have been in place for a while, to make sure it's acceptable to use the LBR devices on them.

If you need help getting the Von Duprin retrofit kits or choosing the specific hardware that you need, I can connect you with the local rep. If you want to email me directly, my email address is lori.greene@allegion.com.
Click to expand...
How do the doors work when the fire alarm goes off ??

Is one operation the electric stiles release?? If so how do the doors stay latched ? Or does it take operation of the door hardware to open the doors?
 
cda said:
How do the doors work when the fire alarm goes off ?? Is one operation the electric stiles release?? If so how do the doors stay latched ? Or does it take operation of the door hardware to open the doors?
Click to expand...
If electric latch retraction is used, the power holds the latches retracted. When the fire alarm cuts power, the latches project to latch the doors for fire protection. When you push on the touchpad of the panic device (just like you do right now while it is not electrified), it retracts the latch to allow you to exit. The door will re-latch when it closes.

If you use an electric strike to release the top latch of the panic hardware (bottom latch must be removed and LBR retrofit kit installed), the power keeps the electric strike keeper free to allow the latch to be pulled through the keeper. When power is cut, the keeper will be secure for fire resistance. Just as in the above example, when you push on the touchpad of the panic device, the latch retracts and you can exit.

Neither of the electronic options affect egress or the mechanical operation of the hardware.
 
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