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B & R3 separation & sprinkler
RLGA
SAWHORSE
Assuming 2018 IBC.
Not permitted per Section 903.2.8, which requires a sprinkler system throughout a building with a Group R fire area.
Not permitted per Section 903.2.8, which requires a sprinkler system throughout a building with a Group R fire area.
508 shows 1 hr separation between Type V sprinkled ,B & R.
Whats up with showing 2hr req for nonsprinkled B&R when not possible due to 903?
if entire building required due to R3 is the 13D applicable like the 13R applicable in mixed occupancy since R requirement is the 'trigger'?
Also the exit balcony is a big one that covers an S occupancy...1406.3 conflicts with ?
Last edited:
Well my take
Some ahj’s admended out sprinklers in some R’s
So the code writers got smart and said if you do that
You shall do this
CDA: sounds reasonable
Revised - How does this look ? Any comments or conflicting interpretations? Thanks
I did have a 707.3.10 2 hr horizontal separation, but the 2hr is only required if separating a single occupancy into multiple fire areas
Revised - How does this look ? Any comments or conflicting interpretations? Thanks
I did have a 707.3.10 2 hr horizontal separation, but the 2hr is only required if separating a single occupancy into multiple fire areas
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
IBC 903.3.1.2.1 requires sprinklers under the balcony.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
You can create a separate fire areas. The walls supporting the horizontal separation have to be rated the same so you are almost there where only the "R" has to be sprinklered
Builder Bob
Sawhorse
except the means of egress discharge is on a different level.
mtlogcabin,
Do you interpret Instead of the 1hr required by table 508.4 applicable provision per 707.3.9 separating mixed occupancy, use 707.3.10 and apply sprinkler requirements to each fire area? According to IBC building area definition we have a B occ building and a R occ building.
2015 IBC TABLE 707.3.10
2hr horizontal fire assembly fire barrier separating the fire areas of B&R3
FIRE AREA REQUIREMENTS
All R3 occ buildings require 13d sprinklers
The B occ building requires no sprinkler
RLGA do you see code prevent this due to the noted 903.2.8, which requires a sprinkler system throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area with the current building area/ fire area IBC definitions?
Thanks
Do you interpret Instead of the 1hr required by table 508.4 applicable provision per 707.3.9 separating mixed occupancy, use 707.3.10 and apply sprinkler requirements to each fire area? According to IBC building area definition we have a B occ building and a R occ building.
2015 IBC TABLE 707.3.10
2hr horizontal fire assembly fire barrier separating the fire areas of B&R3
FIRE AREA REQUIREMENTS
All R3 occ buildings require 13d sprinklers
The B occ building requires no sprinkler
RLGA do you see code prevent this due to the noted 903.2.8, which requires a sprinkler system throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area with the current building area/ fire area IBC definitions?
Thanks
JBI
Registered User
Is this a new building or existing? The difference could be important...
The horizontal separation creates separate fire areas, not separate buildings.
13D and 13R have limitations and are not appropriate for mixed use buildings.
The horizontal separation creates separate fire areas, not separate buildings.
13D and 13R have limitations and are not appropriate for mixed use buildings.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
My 1st response was based on this being an existing building. Sorry for the confusion.
New building sprinkle the whole building
existing building change of occupancy sprinkle the "R" only or no sprinkle protection required for the "R" if less than 3 stories
IEBC
1012.1.1.1 Change of occupancy classification without separation.
Where a portion of an existing building is changed to a new occupancy classification and that portion is not separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, the entire building shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 applied throughout the building for the most restrictive occupancy classification in the building and with the requirements of this chapter.
1012.1.1.2 Change of occupancy classification with separation.
Where a portion of an existing building that is changed to a new occupancy classification and that portion is separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, that portion shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 for the new occupancy classification and with the requirements of this chapter.
904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.
804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:
1. The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and
2. The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.
Exceptions:
1. Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.
2. If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.
804.2.2.1 Mixed uses.
In work areas containing mixed uses, one or more of which requires automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with Section 804.2.2, such protection shall not be required throughout the work area provided that the uses requiring such protection are separated from those not requiring protection by fire-resistance-rated construction having a minimum 2-hour rating for Group H and a minimum 1-hour rating for all other occupancy groups.
New building sprinkle the whole building
existing building change of occupancy sprinkle the "R" only or no sprinkle protection required for the "R" if less than 3 stories
IEBC
1012.1.1.1 Change of occupancy classification without separation.
Where a portion of an existing building is changed to a new occupancy classification and that portion is not separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, the entire building shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 applied throughout the building for the most restrictive occupancy classification in the building and with the requirements of this chapter.
1012.1.1.2 Change of occupancy classification with separation.
Where a portion of an existing building that is changed to a new occupancy classification and that portion is separated from the remainder of the building with fire barriers having a fire-resistance rating as required in the International Building Code for the separate occupancy, that portion shall comply with all of the requirements of Chapter 9 for the new occupancy classification and with the requirements of this chapter.
904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.
804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:
1. The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and
2. The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.
Exceptions:
1. Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.
2. If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.
804.2.2.1 Mixed uses.
In work areas containing mixed uses, one or more of which requires automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with Section 804.2.2, such protection shall not be required throughout the work area provided that the uses requiring such protection are separated from those not requiring protection by fire-resistance-rated construction having a minimum 2-hour rating for Group H and a minimum 1-hour rating for all other occupancy groups.
JBI
Registered User
mtlogcabin, the exception you highlighted does not apply as the proposed occupancy is an R-3 which is outside the scope of the applicable section (R-1, R-2 and R-4 only included)
The mixed use provision would be applicable and that limits the application of the sprinkler requirement to only the R occupancy...
Not a sprinkler expert, but still not sure the standards would allow a limited/partial 13D or 13R in this situation.
The mixed use provision would be applicable and that limits the application of the sprinkler requirement to only the R occupancy...
Not a sprinkler expert, but still not sure the standards would allow a limited/partial 13D or 13R in this situation.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
The exception is for group all "R" occupancies which include R-3
R-3 do not have occupant loads over 16 people and therefore are not mentioned in 804.2.2 because it is the requirement of having more than one tenant AND sharing corridors and exits serve more than 30 occupants that drives the sprinkler requirements.
310.5 Residential Group R-3.
Residential occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:
Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units
Boarding houses (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Boarding houses (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants
Care facilities that provide accommodations for five or fewer persons receiving care
Congregate living facilities (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants
R-3 do not have occupant loads over 16 people and therefore are not mentioned in 804.2.2 because it is the requirement of having more than one tenant AND sharing corridors and exits serve more than 30 occupants that drives the sprinkler requirements.
310.5 Residential Group R-3.
Residential occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:
Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units
Boarding houses (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Boarding houses (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants
Care facilities that provide accommodations for five or fewer persons receiving care
Congregate living facilities (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants