Basement egress in existing construction

[jar546]

Townhouse built before there was a requirement for egress back when we had NO codes. Owner wants to finish the basement. Does egress apply if it is not a bedroom?

 

[fatboy]

If the use of the space is changing, the current code requirements for EERO's are required. At least here anyway. JMHO

 

[north star]

( = = )

From the `06 IRC, Section R310.1 - Emergency escape and rescue required:

"Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency

escape and rescue opening........Such opening shall open directly into a public

street, public alley, yard or court......Where basements contain one or more

sleeping rooms, emergency egress and rescue openings shall be required in each

sleeping room, but shall not be required in adjoining areas of the basement.

Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided they shall have a sill

height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above the floor.........Where a door

opening having a threshold below the adjacent ground elevation serves as an

emergency escape and rescue opening and is provided with a bulkhead enclosure,

the bulkhead enclosure shall comply with Section R310.3.........The net clear

opening dimensions required by this section shall be obtained by the normal

operation of the emergency escape and rescue opening from the inside.

Emergency escape and rescue openings with a finished sill height below the

adjacent ground elevation shall be provided with a window well in accordance

with Section R310.2........Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open

directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical equipment and not

exceeding total floor area of 200 square feet (18.58 m2)."

Is the basement going to remain a basement [ i.e. - non-sleeping room ], or

something else?



( = = )

 

[mjesse]

New EE&RO required here

mj

 

[ICE]

It was legal when it was built. It is legal today. Cosmetic changes don't change that. Adding electrical, plumbing or air conditioning don't change that.

Then there's the arguement that when it was built, this place was a lawless frontier and every jacked-up mess that anybody built was legal.....So it's fair game to apply the current code.

 

[rktect 1]

When you make them put the EERO in, dont forget to have them fix the stairs riser height and tread depth.

 

[fatboy]

An unfinished basement turning into a finished space is a change of use. New EERO in compliance with the adopted code.

"When it was built" may have been in the 50's when EERO's were unheard of, and we have these cute litlle 18" X 30" windows 6 feet of the floor. Not going to fly here.

 

[fatboy]

The use of the stair has not changed, it functions exactly the same as it did before.

 

[ICE]

An unfinished basement turning into a finished space is a change of use. New EERO in compliance with the adopted code. "When it was built" may have been in the 50's when EERO's were unheard of, and we have these cute litlle 18" X 30" windows 6 feet of the floor. Not going to fly here.

What is the new use? Or if you prefer, what was the old use?

 

[fatboy]

"An unfinished basement turning into a finished space is a change of use. New EERO in compliance with the adopted code."

 

[Glenn]

We would require them due to finishing a previously unfinished space. We would also require that every room or space be labeled for the "use". (ie. bedroom, rec room, office, craft room, etc.)

It is a basement and has always been a basement and will always be a basement. However, in it's finished state, we need to know the "use" of the room. Intended use has everything to do with what code requirements are required. Unfinished spaces do not have a "use". They are not finished to know what the use is. Once they finish it, they must give it a use and then we will apply the code.

I agree with you, ICE (can't believe I said that), in regard to the code not clearly stating this. Your challenging comments made me search the good book for clear backing. I can't exactly say it's there, but I would hang my hat on interpretation and intent and purpose. I think it's pretty clear that a finished space encourages more habitating of the space, thus a change in use and a greater need to escape/rescue. However... non of these terms mesh together well, "basement", "habitable space", "conditioned space". Most basements are concidered "conditioned space" via the energy code definitions, yet there is really nothing to say that a previously unfinished, but conditioned basement is NOT habitable space already. Nothing about being "habitable" requires finishing. Definitely a bit of a condrum here in trying to use the code "exactly" to explain this one.

For what is seemingly an easy answer...this might make for good discussion.

Interesting...but sticking to my original statement. Leave it unfinished, (as is) or bring it up to current code.

 

[mtlogcabin]

R102.7 Existing structures.

The legal occupancy of any structure existing on the date of adoption of this code shall be permitted to continue without change, except as is specifically covered in this code, the International Property Maintenance Code or the International Fire Code , or as is deemed necessary by the building official for the general safety and welfare of the occupants and the public.

R102.7.1 Additions, alterations or repairs.

Additions , alterations or repairs to any structure shall conform to the requirements for a new structure without requiring the existing structure to comply with all of the requirements of this code, unless otherwise stated. Additions , alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing structure to become unsafe or adversely affect the performance of the building.

I am not going looking for older buildings without EERO's but when someone comes in for a permit to alter a space (basement) then I will require at least one be installed or in each sleeping room if identified.

 

[ICE]

What activity will take place in the basement after it is "finished"? Could that same activity take place in the basement before it is "finished"? If office furniture is placed in a dining room, does that fit your definition of a change of use? And by the way, what code are we applying? If a garage gets drywall and a ceiling fan, does that change the use? How about a pool table in the garage or basement. Is it recreation or storage that's taking place?

Do code officials make these distinctions? We determine what is a bedroom and not much more.

Who the Hell gets a permit to "finish" a basement....and why do we call it finishing a basement? Is it not done without drywall or paneling? All that does for you is make it easier to control the millipedes.

We have few basements here. If we did, the plans would say "basement" and that's all I would need to know. It wouldn't matter if it said basement-rec room/playroom/family room/study/crafts room. With the exception of a few electrical codes, wall, ceiling and floor finish don't change up the rules on a basement.

So if there is an existing legal basement, unless bedrooms are created, there will still be a legal basement after it is finished. That it lacks an EERO is too bad but old codes or no codes left us holding the bag and there is nothing we can do about it.

When I was a smaller kid, every basement in town was a playroom...finished or not.

Glenn, You should never agree with me.....for all you know, I could be doing this just to be doing this.....for the last time Glenn, take a lesson from fatboy...do not trust me.

 

[Glenn]

Okay, ICE... then under your logic should there be convenience receptacles required in "unfinished" basements...if that status doesn't in fact make those spaces a little different from "finished" spaces. How do you know how to apply the provisions of R3901.2 without giving cute little names to each room (as listed)? Should we consider unfinished basements as "...or similar room or area of dwelling units..." Or... perhaps we should only consider it like that once it is...well...once it is finished.

By the mere name itself, "unfinished basement" it is a space that is not yet complete. As in...it isn't "finished" yet. How can you determine final code compliance for a portion of a dwelling who's construction is not "complete". i.e. "finished". There are plenty of reasons to require the use of rooms to be labeled well beyond only the bedroom.

Your argument started reasonable...but now your getting carried away.

 

[ICE]

I may be getting carried away but I'm not in cuffs yet.

EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGSR310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required. Basements,

habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have at least one

operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements

contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency egress

and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping room.

Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided

they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118

mm) above the floor. Where a door opening having a threshold

below the adjacent ground elevation serves as an emergency

escape and rescue opening and is provided with a bulkhead

enclosure, the bulkhead enclosure shall comply with Section

R310.3. The net clear opening dimensions required by this section

shall be obtained by the normal operation of the emergency

escape and rescue opening from the inside. Emergency

escape and rescue openings with a finished sill height belowthe

adjacent ground elevation shall be provided with a window

well in accordance with Section R310.2. Emergency escape

and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to

a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Exception: Basements used only to house mechanical

equipment and not exceeding total floor area of 200 square

feet (18.58 m2).

Does it matter if the basement is finished or not? The EERO isn't required because of a heightened level of use. All basements are required to have an EERO. The problem here is a basement that is legal without an EERO and unless bedrooms are added, there is no code compliant way to require an EERO.

If Jeff wants to make them install an EERO it can only be because it is a basement....not because someone decided to finish one.

Of course I could be full of crap.

 

[jar546]

Not my jurisdiction, a problem another inspector called me about. He always requires way out as the code required today & we are not talking about bedrooms, just finished space. A nice couch is a great place to fall asleep in the basement.......... But, its not a bedroom.

 

[Yankee]

I consider that is it a Change of Use. An unfinished basement has a use, in the original application it is previously approved as either a Storage Use, or a Utility Use. If it is an open space to be finished it still needs the primary egress and the EERO. If any internal walls are to be built, each space needs a primary and EERO (although the EERO may not be required to lead directly outside depending on the Use the space is labeled for.

That's just the way I see it.

I wonder what code year basements were required to have EERO?

 

[mjesse]

Discussions like this are what make this job fun.

For those who say no to the EE&RO, will you require proper light and vent?

- Receptacle outlets properly spaced?

- Insulation/vapor barrier?

- Smoke detector?

- Handrail/guardrail on stairs?

I've argued with BO's in my past life regarding the riser and tread issue that rktect mentions (sarcastically I assume)

Here we would allow the existing stair geometry to remain, but all other above would apply. Including the EE&RO.

mj

 

[mtlogcabin]

I wonder what code year basements were required to have EERO?

The 2006 removed the requirement that the basement have a habitable space. Under todays code all basements have at least one EERO at time of construction. Our policy on older homes is if the basement was permitted as "unfinished" in other words no habitable space then the basement does not need an EERO. However under the older codes when a habitable space is placed within a basement then an EERO was required so it is not a change of use per say it is the fact that a habitable space if being established in the basement. As i pointed out above the BO can require one based on R102.7

2003 IRC

310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements with habitable space and every sleeping room

2006 IRC

R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency and rescue opening.

 

[rktect 1]

The use of the stair has not changed, it functions exactly the same as it did before.

Actually, it will now be used a lot more then when the basement was a root cellar.

Use has changed.

 

[rktect 1]

If you have an existing home built in 1910, and the floor to ceiling height in the basement is 6'-4" because it was used as mechanical room or root cellar, and someone wants to finish it out, do you also make them lower the basement floor or raise the home several inches? Or tell them they can not finish it out?

 

[Mac]

Which brings us back to "How much can I fix up this basement before I need a Permit?"

 

[steveray]

If you have an existing home built in 1910, and the floor to ceiling height in the basement is 6'-4" because it was used as mechanical room or root cellar, and someone wants to finish it out, do you also make them lower the basement floor or raise the home several inches? Or tell them they can not finish it out?

State level modification here...(I think they will go to about 6'2" on stairs and beam) we are still 2003 based.....only gets an EERO if it gets a bedroom....and zoning does not allow those in a basement.....(Long stupid story....)