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Basement lab

J

Just John

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
65
A hospital lab wants to have two 55 gallon drums of a flammable liquid in their basement lab. (basement is a B occupancy) Using the 2009 IFC section 3404.3.5.1 states if sprinklered in accordance with 9 you may store up to the open amounts of table 2703.1.1(1). This would be 30 gallons for a Class I-b + I-c. The commentary also mentions the increases for the table notes is allowed.

Is 60 gallons of class Ib and Ic per control area allowed in this sprinklered basement, with table 2703.8.3.2 allowing 3 control areas with 1-hour barriers?

Can they dispense out of these drums into 1 gallon containers in the basement? 3405.3.7.2 just says you cannot dispense out of basement of H-2 or H3. Can you then dispense in basement of other occupancies? Can they have a doubling for FL cabinets?
 
What is the flammable liquid????

Why do they need so much???

How do the purpose to dispense the liquid???

Any mention of a flammable liquid cabinet??
 
xylene

Lab use - One drum to dispense into gallon containers, and one for waste.

They have not metioned how it will be dispensed.

I am the one wondering if they can get a doubling for cabinet so they would not need fire barriers for control areas to obtain the amounts they need.
 
Does not sound like a good idea...... where are they going to store the next drum of Xylene that they need when the first barrell is almost used up?

Electrical Issues, Sprinkler issue - I am almost sure that the sprinkler system isn't designed for this added fuel load, air monitoring, Blah, blah, blah.

An outdoor area, may be a better idea with small amounts being transported in as needed.
 
So, in the basement lab, what would you say they can have for flammable liquids per control area? Is it 30 gallons? Double for sprinkler 60 gallons? 3 control areas = 180 gallons total if they put in fire bariers = two 1hour rooms (1hour - walls, door, ceiling, sprinkler, around each drum) + the rest of the lab as the third control area.
 
Fire Fighting Media and Instructions:Flammable liquid, soluble or dispersed in water. SMALL FIRE: Use DRY chemical powder. LARGE FIRE: Use alcohol foam,

water spray or fog. Cool containing vessels with water jet in order to prevent pressure build-up, autoignition or explosion.
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Looks like they should switch out any standard sprinklers to a micro-drop system.
 
Laboratory uses for xylene:

It is used in the laboratory to make baths with dry ice to cool reaction vessels, and as a solvent to remove synthetic immersion oil from the microscope objective in light microscopy. In histology, xylene is the most widely used clearing agent. Xylene is used to remove paraffin from dried microscope slides prior to staining. After staining, microscope slides are put in xylene prior to mounting with a coverslip.
 
cda said:
55 gallons????? That is a lot of cleaning and stuff
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I personally think this lab might be featured on the next episode of Fringe. I would be very suspicious if the lab has a cow or a two headed goat? ;)
 
Again, I would appriciate anyones response on how they would interpret 2009 IFC section 3404.3.5.1

So, in the basement lab, what would you say they can have for flammable liquids per control area? Is it 30 gallons? Double for sprinkler 60 gallons? 3 control areas = 180 gallons total if they put in fire bariers = two 1hour rooms (1hour - walls, door, ceiling, sprinkler, around each drum) + the rest of the lab as the third control area.
 
Sorry do not have direct access to the book

But as far as storage looks like you assumptions are good

Also look at

3405.3.5.2 Occupancy quantity limits

Me personally would want to know what is the minimum they can live with
 
How many grades below grade plane is the lab? You say basement but is it only one story to two?

They can get sprinkler increase as long as its approved, that is area evaluated for proper hazard. Additionally, they can double the MAQ and sprinkler increase with a flammable liquids cabinet.

I'm assuming that we're only looking at a 1 floor below grade plane here:

Ic flammable liquid MAQ based on msds I'm looking at (Flashpoint of 77) allows 120 gallons (30 gallons is only IA)

They can have 75 percent of their Maximum allowable quantity in three control areas.

120*.75=90 gallons.

If sprinkler system is approved, they can have 180 gallons. And if a cabinet, 360 in each control area Seems without the cabinet they would be good without additional control areas. However, that is considering all IB and IC flammable liquids in the control area, not just the xylene.

If they needed to, they could build up to 3 control areas with 1 hour fire barriers. They could then store their MAQ three times in that one floor.

Being an open transfer, they would have to meet 2705.2.1

Also, look at 2705.1.10 for transfer of liquids. I do believe the msds has a 3 For flammability in nfpa 704. Therefore, doesn't look like out of the 55 gallon drum is ok.
 
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Just saw that code reference you posted. That's what I get for not having the book and looking online. Does look like basement storage is limited to that of what's allowed in open system. I also believe they still have to do the percentage loss of 75 percent.
 
Since 2009 IFC section 3404.3.5.1 specifically mentions basement amount is what you have in the table for open use. I feel that that is the MAQ 30 gallons and you do NOT take 75% for being one floor below grade. You can then double it for sprinkler to 60 gallons. Anyone disagree with this?
 
Still not near the book

But appears you are correct but there is still

5. Group I occupancies: Quantities in Group I occupancies shall not exceed that necessary for demonstration, laboratory work, maintenance purposes and operation of equipment, and shall not exceed quantities set forth in Table 2703.1.1(1).
 
In accordance with IFC 2009:



3404.3.5.1 Basement storage. Class I liquids shall be allowed to be stored in basements in amounts not exceeding the maximum allowable quantity per control area for use-open systems in Table 2703.1.1(1), provided that automatic suppression and other fire protection are provided in accordance with Chapter 9. Class II and IIIA liquids shall also be allowed to be stored in basements, provided that automatic suppression and other fire protection are provided in accordance with Chapter 9.
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Using the table 2701.1.1(1) for open systems one would be able to store an aggrate quantity of 60 gallons of flammable liquids in the basement using

(footnote d)

Been out of town and busy.........sorry!
 
FM

welcome back,

How about

5. Group I occupancies: Quantities in Group I occupancies shall not exceed that necessary for demonstration, laboratory work, maintenance purposes and operation of equipment, and shall not exceed quantities set forth in Table 2703.1.1(1).
 
Remember that those limits are for "control areas". Other rules apply if you exceed the exempt quantity for a control area and create a Group H occupancy.
 
CD brings up a very valid point not to be forgotton.

Cda...thanks! Regarding the Group I question; the facility indeed is an "I" with the Lab being considered a "B" use. Regardless, the allowance of 60 gallons (per control area) in an open system, if the footnote applies, allows the use of a 55 gallon drum of flammable liquids and dispensing into portable containers if approved.
 
Just John, I know you are looking for some direct answers to interpret the code restrictions for your situation, but as others have noted, you have some potential serious issues here. There was a fire in a lab basement I know of that occurred 10 years ago involving flammable liquids, and some other unfavorable factors. Long story short, 52 head fire. Access to the below grade space by the fire department was one of many issues. Here are my thoughts:

-A 55 gal drum of flammable liquid (and you have 2) is a potential BLEVE. Google it. There is no reason for a drum of low fp liquid to be sitting in the middle of a lab area, even if code allows it in my opinion. Ask them to reduce the amount. Use smaller, metal containers, flammable liquid cabinets, outside storage and bring in only a days shift, etc. I think you need to be very conservative here because of this occupancy, amount of people, etc. If this were an open, manufacturing or warehouse area (etc) I would not be as concerned.

-My guess is the sprinkler system in this lab is a .10, .15, or maybe .20 density if you are lucky. A thorough analysis is needs to be done per NFPA 30 to make sure you have adequate protection
 
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