Bathroom- tempered glass windows? (Carroll County, MD)

[BLangley]

Morning!

Left the property management life to work for a general contractor doing bathroom/kitchen design and a dabble of project management. Been here about 6 months, and we've gotten conflicting info on tempered glass windows in bathrooms. Since the inspectors seem to be off today, figured I'd try here.

I've heard all bathroom windows must be tempered, and I've heard there is a magical (unknown) number of inches that the sill must be above for the window to not be tempered. Also heard that location (in shower or next to tub) makes a difference.

What I'm working on is a bathroom remodel that will have a freestanding soaking tub adjacent to an existing window. Window sill is about 28-inches above the floor. Does the window need to be tempered glass? Seems like it would be, but at least one glass company's website online says the window bottom would need to be as low as 18-inches before tempering is required.

Thanks!

 

[SCBO1]

Goggle R308.4.5 Glazing and wet surfaces. There is an exception if the glazing (window) is more than 60-inches measured horizontally and in a staight line from the waters edge of a tub. So if the window is above the tub, it considered hazardous.

And your statement that all bathroom windows need to be tempered may not be true, depends on the size and the location of the bathroom windows. Some bathrooms are large and may not need the outside windows protected.

 

[Saugie53]

As stated above IRC section R308.4.5 basically states that if the window is within a straight line distance of 5 ft to the edge of the tub and the glazing itself not necessarily the Sill is located less than 5 ft off the finished floor level it must be tempered glass. Without knowing exactly what is the adopted code in the location where you're working I would not be able to say whether or not this applies to you some places amend the IRC so I do not know if 1. The IRC is the code that is adopted where your working or 2. If it is whether or not they have amended that section. As an inspector I will usually also recommend to contractors if this is an existing window and they did not want to spend the money to replace the sashes or the entire window itself depending there are several window film products that can be applied like tint which are clear films that can be applied to an existing window that will usually then make it meet the tempered glass requirements. But that is definitely something you should check with the local inspector to see if they would be willing to accept.

 

[classicT]

R308.4.5 Glazing and Wet Surfaces
Glazing in walls, enclosures or fences containing or facing hot tubs, spas, whirlpools, saunas, steam rooms, bathtubs, showers and indoor or outdoor swimming pools where the bottom exposed edge of the glazing is less than 60 inches (1524 mm) measured vertically above any standing or walking surface shall be considered to be a hazardous location. This shall apply to single glazing and each pane in multiple glazing.

Exception: Glazing that is more than 60 inches (1524 mm), measured horizontally and in a straight line, from the water's edge of a bathtub, hot tub, spa, whirlpool or swimming pool or from the edge of a shower, sauna or steam room.

 

[BLangley]

Thank you all!

I'll confirm any additions/changes by the local office here when they get back in Monday.

 

[Glenn]

Safety glazing is required. There are options other than only tempered. Tempered is just the go-to.

 

[ICE]

Safety glazing is required. There are options other than only tempered. Tempered is just the go-to.

The options are more like urban legends. Shirley options exist but nobody uses them in residential settings. Wired glass? Some sort of film? That's not going to happen. Replacing standard glazing for tempered glazing is the least expensive most expeditious answer.

 

[Saugie53]

The options are more like urban legends. Shirley options exist but nobody uses them in residential settings. Wired glass? Some sort of film? That's not going to happen. Replacing standard glazing for tempered glazing is the least expensive most expeditious answer.

I am a building inspector and can tell you that I see people use the film all the time. I just had two people in the last month use the film rather than replace both upper and lower sashes on an existing window with tempered glass sashes. In both cases they told me it was not necessarily cheaper but to order new sashes to fit in the existing window with the way things are currently they would have had to wait three months or more for the order to come in so it was a lot faster to just have the film applied.

 

[ICE]

I am curious as to the requirements form the installation of the film. Such as certification of the installer, is an adhesive required, etc?

 

[Saugie53]

So from the people in my jurisdiction that have gone that route they usually hire a window tinting company to install it, I have seen at least two different local automotive window tinting companies that sell and install the different types of safety films. As an inspector on the permit side of things I require the product spec. sheet showing exactly what film they are applying (90% of the time they go with a 3M product) so that I can verify it meets the safety glazing requirements and then either a work order or receipt from whichever company installed it listing the date installed and the product that was applied (most of the safety films are clear with no markings or etchings to verify it is safety glazing like tempered glass has). Then as part of my final inspection I verify that I can see the film on the window that is required to have safety glazing which usually you can only tell by seeing the line around the edge of the window where the film starts. Many of the 3M safety film products have the adhesive on them already and are pretty much exactly like window tint only clear and are applied in the exact same way that tint is applied.

 

[ICE]

There doesn’t appear to be anything special about how the 3M film is installed. I did not find any testing or listing information. I did find out that the warranty is good for fifteen years. I didn’t read the warranty to find out if it transfers to a new owner.

Tempered glazing can last forever or until it shatters, whichever comes first. Apparently 3M film has a limited lifespan. That would be reason enough to turn it down.

 

[Saugie53]

There doesn’t appear to be anything special about how the 3M film is installed. I did not find any testing or listing information. I did find out that the warranty is good for fifteen years. I didn’t read the warranty to find out if it transfers to a new owner.

Tempered glazing can last forever or until it shatters, whichever comes first. Apparently 3M film has a limited lifespan. That would be reason enough to turn it down.

A product warranty and Lifespan are two completely different things. Just looking at the Anderson website they only warranty most of their tempered glass windows for 2 to 5 years.

 

[Saugie53]

I'm not saying one product is in any way better than the other I was just point out that there are several different available options to meet the safety glazing requirements of the code.

 

[ICE]

A product warranty and Lifespan are two completely different things. Just looking at the Anderson website they only warranty most of their tempered glass windows for 2 to 5 years.

Anderson's warranty is for everything but the safety glazing. 3M's whole purpose for being is safety glazing. I agree that a warranty period does not equate to a lifespan....unless you overthink it.

 

[Saugie53]

It's purpose is creating another alternative to meeting the safety glazing requirements of the code which in my opinion is a good alternative for someone that say has a house built in the 1920's and would have to either order custom made window sashes or replace the entire window of their built in place putty or lead glazed window panes which could be extremely expensive l. Don't get me wrong again I'm not saying the film is better, if it were my house I would choose to swap the sashes for tempered glass, that's just not always an option for everyone and having other ways to meet the code requirements is nice for cases like that, or the one I mentioned earlier.

 

[ICE]

It's purpose is creating another alternative to meeting the safety glazing requirements of the code which in my opinion is a good alternative for someone that say has a house built in the 1920's and would have to either order custom made window sashes or replace the entire window of their built in place putty or lead glazed window panes which could be extremely expensive l. Don't get me wrong again I'm not saying the film is better, if it were my house I would choose to swap the sashes for tempered glass, that's just not always an option for everyone and having other ways to meet the code requirements is nice for cases like that, or the one I mentioned earlier.

I find no fault with any of that.

 

[steveray]

I am curious as to the requirements form the installation of the film. Such as certification of the installer, is an adhesive required, etc?

I know I researched it once and the requirements were onerous....So the apartment complex I was inspecting replaced about 100 sashes...

 

[BLangley]

Just got local clarification.

Because we are proposing a total gut/remodel and moving the bathtub to this location, they would want the window tempered (bottom sash only if the top sash starts 50-inches above the floor).

They would accept film only if there was no moving of the fixtures. If there was a built-in jetted tub by the window and we were placing a new freestanding tub in that location, we could film the window.

 

[steveray]

In a straight fixture replacement, there would be no need to upgrade the window.....

 

[BLangley]

Sounded like they look for the upgraded window if the fixture is replaced. I gave the inspector I spoke with that exact example and he said the film would be fine.

If we were not touching an existing tub at all, then perhaps we could ignore the window.