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Bleachers and Unlimited Area buildings.

U

UCinCAT

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Joined
Sep 19, 2013
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Can bleachers be constructed adjacent an existing Unlimited Area building within the 60-foot open space associated with the unlimited area building?
Height of the bleachers to the top row is approximately 20-feet.
2018 KyBC(2015 IBC) partially defines a building as "Any combination of materials, whether portable or fixed, which comprises a structure..."
and structure as "That which is built or constructed."
Are bleachers considered buildings?
 
With...
The exterior wall adjacent to where the bleachers are planned does not carry a fire resistance rating. It was constructed as a 2B, unlimited area building.

For the code analysis - and the the purposes of the permit review - do we need to identify the exsiting, adjacent building as an unlimited area building?
 
ADAguy said:
Definitly structures supporting users.
Is the adjacent wall with or without windows?
Click to expand...
Bascially...What I'm trying to get to the bottom of is whether or not the 60-foot open space required and established by an existing unlimited area building is considered a "no man's land" for future structures - in this case - bleachers for viewing sports activities.
 
UCinCAT said:
Bascially...What I'm trying to get to the bottom of is whether or not the 60-foot open space required and established by an existing unlimited area building is considered a "no man's land" for future structures - in this case - bleachers for viewing sports activities.
Click to expand...
Not many chirping in here...

This is a bit of a gray zone in the IBC. I heavily suggest speaking with your AHJ for their determination.
 
It should be OK if the bleachers are also allowed to be unlimited area with IIB construction, but it's best to confirm this with the AHJ before going too far.
 
No absolutely not.
The bleachers are an obstruction to the required yard
Bleachers are an A-5 use and are unlimited per Table 503
However they are not allowed to encroach into the required open yard of an unlimited building. Part of the 60 ft requirement is to allow firefighter access to fight a fire and the bleachers would interfere with their ability to due that.

Where Sections 507.2 through 507.12 require buildings to be surrounded and adjoined by public ways and yards, those open spaces shall be determined as follows:
1. Yards shall be measured from the building perimeter in all directions to the closest interior lot lines or to the exterior face of an opposing building located on the same lot, as applicable.
2 Where the building fronts on a public way, the entire width of the public way shall be used.


YARD. An open space, other than a court, unobstructed from the ground to the sky, except where specifically provided by this code, on the lot on which a building is situated.
 
^^^^ Exactly what Mtlogcabin said. It's required to be 60 ft when the building is built and cannot be altered in any way.
 
Sooooooo......Do you guys not allow trees or transformers or stairs or handrails at UA buildings?.....Dumpsters? No parking within 60'? Light poles?

If the bleachers are "part" of the building and allowed to be UA......? What if they were monolithic stairs?
 
steveray, in my past jurisdiction we did not allow power poles since overhead power lines limit the ability of aerial apparatus to operate (safely)

Usually buffer yard requirements are at the fringes of the property and directly adjacent to the building. I was able to get zoning passed to limit placement of scrubs and trees at emergency egress windows for projects that require them.

Common sense is needed - As long as the fire apparatus has an area to operate and freedom to travel around the perimeter and have full service of the aerial device ........ Bleachers are not mobile, the amount of real estate needed for a major fire is enormous especially if you start setting up triage for a mass casualty event
 
You can add a 20' wide addition that is 40 feet from the property line. But the exterior wall within 40' of the property line needs to be a 3 hour rated wall with protected openings. The reduced width shall not be allowed for more than 75 percent of the perimeter of the building. So maybe building a 3 hour rated fire wall behind the non-combustible bleachers and call it safe enough.

2012 IBC 507.5
 
Builder Bob said:
mtlog has the correct answer - keyword unobstructed
Click to expand...

Thanks to all who have chimed on this question. I think mtlogcabin and Builder Bob have it correct.
“Unobstructed” is the key word.

the height of the planned bleacher is actually less than 10-ft to the last row.
I am meeting with the AHJ, and hopefully the Fire Marshall, to discuss the planned placement of the bleacher in relation to the UA building , and whether or not the Fire Marshall feels fire apparatus can easily work around the bleachers given its proposed height and potential access to the athletic track and infield for apparatus use.
 
As an AHJ I would prefer the Operations Chief input over the Fire Marshall or Fire Chiefs since he/she has the most direct knowledge of their equipment and how it operates versus how the book says it will operate.
If they agree the bleachers will not be an issue then I would want that in writing for the building department file.
 
ADAguy said:
Inquiring minds would like to hear their replies.
Click to expand...

The bleachers, as currently planned, are considered an obstruction within the 60-foot boundary established by the unlimited area building.
Both the AHJ and fire dept are going by the book (and definitions) of the building code and concurred.
Interestingly, the row of tress planned within the 60-foot boundary were OK. (I'm guessing because trees not "buildings/structures"?)

Changing the Type of Construction to IB is not feasible. Neither is providing a 3-hour rated wall along the reduced area.

As a "Hail Mary", i proposed using Section 503.1.2 Buildings on the Same Lot, and the AHJ was seemed agreeable to the approach.

I've never worked on a project using this provision in the Code.
Should I be skeptical that this is the correct approach?
 
UCinCAT said:
As a "Hail Mary", i proposed using Section 503.1.2 Buildings on the Same Lot, and the AHJ was seemed agreeable to the approach.

I've never worked on a project using this provision in the Code.
Should I be skeptical that this is the correct approach?
Click to expand...

I was skeptical until I read the definition. The bleachers are supporting an A-5 occupancy.

A] BUILDING. Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or occupancy.
 
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