Boise Idaho in hot seat

[CodeWarrior]

Boise Planning & Development Services faces lawsuit from a homeowner after plans were changed without full recheck-

Lawsuit alleges gross negligence from Boise's building inspection department after a home was approved with multiple code violations

A Boise man filed suit against the City of Boise last fall alleging gross negligence after its Planning & Development Services department failed to address changes in building plans to his house or notice major code violations before giving it a certificate of occupancy. On September 9...

boisedev.com

 

[bill1952]

Well chit, that's not team play.

Why isn't the contractor a defendant? Shallow pockets?

 

[ICE]

“Thus, the inspector stated that he only physically inspects projects if he observes “glaring” code violations after simply “looking around” when he first arrives on the project sites.”

To the general public that stumbles upon this forum thread I say: This is typical in many places and much worse in some. You think that an expert has inspected the work when in fact it might have been a dummy. I know this from seeing it first hand in a dozen jurisdictions and hundreds of inspectors.

People that peruse this forum are misled. They leave thinking that their inspector has the ability and will to perform. While there are places where that is true, I suspect that it is rare.

 

[e hilton]

At what point should the HO hire a third party inspector? This to me might be outside something the city inspector would catch. Or would be expected to catch: three inches of regular-weight concrete instead of two inches of lightweight concrete,

Might be evidence of an endemic problem in the city …

This is not the first time issues with improper building inspections from the City of Boise have come up. As reported by BoiseDev last year, nearby residents discovered the setbacks of homes built by CBH Homes were poured in the incorrect locations after PDS staff signed off on plans submitted by the homebuilder with setbacks closer to nearby homes than Boise City Council approved them to do.

 

[Sifu]

Sounds like some problems, which may include the homeowner. No doubt it sounds like the city has some explaining to do (based on the article), but it also sounds like the HO knew this was happening and either buried his head in the sand or decided it was an opportunity. I agree with ICE, getting an inspector to at least open the plans is a problem. There is a reason there are practical limitations on how many inspections can be done in a day. Unfortunately, I think more and more, inspections provide more of an illusion of compliance review, rather than the reality. I can't even begin to explain the lack of review that apparently caused a problem. This is foreign to those of us on this and other similar forums, but we are but a few.

As ICE mentions "ability and will", I call it the "will and the skill". I often try to espouse that philosophy to AHJ's and inspectors. It starts with the "will" to want to do it right, and ends with making sure those with the responsibility have the "skill" to do the job. That idea applies to every job, in every industry.

 

[ICE]

Or would be expected to catch: three inches of regular-weight concrete instead of two inches of lightweight concrete,

There is a difference in color, with the lightweight being darker and the reveal at the bottom plate would be -0"-. That's not to say that it would be caught by the inspector.

 

[bill1952]

Second thread today where I agree with ICE. Wierd.

I agree with most of these responses. Just like the staties dont catch all the speeders, no building inspection system is going to catch all the errors.

I'm intrigued by the third party home inspector, but you should get that if you hire a design pro and builder separately, rather than a design build contractor. Fox in the hen house scenario. Maybe an additional building permit fee for buildings without a design pro, do more time and attention can be allotted.

 

[e hilton]

Poured 3” rather than specified 2”. If i was doing pre-pour inspection as the city inspector, i wouldn’t call that out. And was the inspector supposed to be checking concrete delivery tickets and batch designs? Of course not. I agree, the HO was looking the other way, waiting for the end. Maybe he was going to wave the list of errors in the face of the gc and offer to buy the house for 50%.

 

[bill1952]

An aside, why is the 3" of normal weight a deficiency?

 

[classicT]

An aside, why is the 3" of normal weight a deficiency?

Increased loading. Thicker and heavier. Like 17psf vs. 38psf.

 

[ICE]

An aside, why is the 3" of normal weight a deficiency?

Lightweight Concrete vs. Normal Weight Concrete

Lightweight concrete differs from standard concrete mixtures in ways that can significantly impact your concrete moisture testing practices.

www.wagnermeters.com

"Lightweight concrete presents a number of benefits to the building industry–lighter weight on a building’s structural load, greater sound absorption, better shock absorption and flexibility, improved insulation values–when compared to standard concrete blends. However, it has also been suspected in increasing cases of moisture-related flooring failures. Knowing the advantages and disadvantages of lightweight concrete can be the foundation for making better choices at the design and installation stages."

 

[bill1952]

If a suspended slab, I get it, but if slab on ground, doesnt seem significant. Does a 2" lightweight insulate better than 3" normal weight?

My experience was roof decks on theatres for isolation fromexterior noise. At the end of the day, most experts only cared about pounds per sf, not thickness or density. Form deck under, insulation and membrane roof on top - just psf please. (Which could be a lot if near helicopter traffic!)

 

[classicT]

If a suspended slab, I get it, but if slab on ground, doesnt seem significant.

In the article it indicates that the original plan was slab-on-grade; however, the subsequent change included a crawlspace. Therefore, it is presumable that the performance of the floor system would be jeopardized given that the concrete floor is around double the weight of what it was likely designed for.

 

[bill1952]

In the article it indicates that the original plan was slab-on-grade; however, the subsequent change included a crawlspace. Therefore, it is presumable that the performance of the floor system would be jeopardized given that the concrete floor is around double the weight of what it was likely designed for.

Suggesting it was a floor on framing, not on grade? Weird choice to move a concrete slab on grade to a concrete first floor, and not go to a framed wood floor.

 

[classicT]

Suggesting it was a floor on framing, not on grade? Weird choice to move a concrete slab on grade to a concrete first floor, and not go to a framed wood floor.

If it had a crawlspace, it would probably be a wood framed floor with a concrete topping slab, likely for radiant floor heating.

 

[bill1952]

If it had a crawlspace, it would probably be a wood framed floor with a concrete topping slab, likely for radiant floor heating.

If that's the case, I get it, but seems like a convoluted path, and not an easy fix if the floor framing is overloaded.

 

[ICE]

Light weight concrete is usually on the second floor as it helps with sound control. It is not common with SFDs.

 

[mtlogcabin]

We see it from time to time in a SFD, usually because they are installing radiant heat in the home.

 

[classicT]

If that's the case, I get it, but seems like a convoluted path, and not an easy fix if the floor framing is overloaded.

It is a convoluted situation presented in the article. Sounds like multiple levels of ineptitude and general unawareness from the project team. And correct; by using concrete that is likely double the weight designed for, the engineering fix is likely to be complicated. May perhaps be easier to demo the concrete out and go with the proper material called out in the design.

We see it from time to time in a SFD, usually because they are installing radiant heat in the home.

Same mtlogcabin. Although, given we do not have a good source of lightweight aggregate in my area, it is more common to see gypcrete.

 

[jar546]

When I lived in Pennsylvania, I had a ton of private clients that hired me to oversee new construction in the Poconos. People from NY & NJ were getting homes built in the Poconos but did not live nearby. They had trust issues even though the houses were being built under permit.

My experience was that the local code inspectors were simply not doing their jobs. There was no nitpicking; these were some blatant violations in framing and every other discipline, with electrical being one of the better trades. There were times I made an appointment with the local building official just to sit down and go over these issues; however, most of the time, the BO was the inspector, so some awkward moments ensued.

In one instance there was a situation where a development involved 2 different municipalities. One side of the street was one muni and the other was another. It was the same developer and same homebuilder. What was unbelievable was that because there were two different munis, the homebuilder built completely different based on what side of the street he was on. Because one of the BOs was so incompetent, the builder got away with whatever he could. No house wrap, window with zero flashing, no insulation in the basement, etc. On the other side of the street, the homes were built to code because they had a relatively competent BO. An attorney got involved, I then inspected 5 recently finished homes on the bad side and then a neighbor on the good side allowed me to inspect their home as a control/comparison. This is where we discovered that the builder was getting away with whatever he could.

In the case above, PA L&I got involved and we worked together to verify all of my reports. They notified the incompetent BO that he should hire an attorney because they were going to revoke his certifications.

So this does happen. There are those that take their job seriously and realize what is at stake and ensure the the minimum codes are adhered to per state statute and local ordinances and there are those that just want to be the nice guy/girl and go out of their way to find an excuse as to why something is not required and there are those that are simply incompetent and sucking money from the system. In the case of Boise, ID, sounds like the muni itself never took the BD seriously. How many other homes had these issues?

 

[Genduct]

“Thus, the inspector stated that he only physically inspects projects if he observes “glaring” code violations after simply “looking around” when he first arrives on the project sites.”

To the general public that stumbles upon this forum thread I say: This is typical in many places and much worse in some. You think that an expert has inspected the work when in fact it might have been a dummy. I know this from seeing it first hand in a dozen jurisdictions and hundreds of inspectors.

People that peruse this forum are misled. They leave thinking that their inspector has the ability and will to perform. While there are places where that is true, I suspect that it is rare.

Just followed the link and spoke with the Reporter!
Suit was filed, but not much detail yet
I thought that the owner, who hired then fired the first contractor then went with #2 who made a number of changes (probably with the owner's knowledge and approval) then the job was built without amended drawings ( again with the Owner's knowledge and approval) that turned out not what the owner expected, is now going to hold the local Code Officials for any of the owner's disappointments,

I wonder if the footprint of the original drawing was similar to the modified version?

as far as the site plan goes, I suspect that the BCO may not even pull out the site plan when they did the foundation Unless there are real restrictions like distance to the property line or setbacks that are really emphasized on the Site Plan, the BCO may have just glanced and focused on the rebar and concrete

I hope we hear more about this from the Department so we can all learn a lesson

 

[jar546]

as far as the site plan goes, I suspect that the BCO may not even pull out the site plan when they did the foundation Unless there are real restrictions like distance to the property line or setbacks that are really emphasized on the Site Plan, the BCO may have just glanced and focused on the rebar and concrete

Which is why we require a form board survey before you pour

 

[Genduct]

With us City guys, row homes are a lot less demanding.

So with this step, how then did the structure wind up in the wrong place?

Or was it the right place with the wrong drawing?

 

[Zeke]

With us City guys, row homes are a lot less demanding.

So with this step, how then did the structure wind up in the wrong place?

Or was it the right place with the wrong drawing?

Seems like a bit of both. I too agree that the owner is up to something. I see this being settled in a compromise. But I'm no attorney. Just a dumb GC.